The case of Jeep vs Subaru when it comes to AWD - Page 3 - Jeep Renegade Forum
 10Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #21 of 74 (permalink) Old 04-13-2015, 01:06 AM
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 13
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Thanks for posting this topic---I am in the same boat trying to decide between a Trailhawk and a Subaru. I'd love the Jeep for all the reasons mentioned, but am wondering if I really need the off-road performance. I'd like it of course---I have driven on trails with rocks and dried out lakes in Baja, Mexico and other dirt roads, and would've preferred a Jeep to my current non-off road vehicle (rather than parking a half mile from the camping area and having to get a ride in with someone with a truck...argh.) but I'm thinking I could probably get by with some skid plates on a Subaru. I need to test drive a Trailhawk though before deciding, and read some postings here from new owners who test it out off-road. Thanks or this insightful string!
lbenz is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #22 of 74 (permalink) Old 04-13-2015, 10:20 AM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Karamich's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Canada
Posts: 187
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 69 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by lbenz View Post
Thanks for posting this topic---I am in the same boat trying to decide between a Trailhawk and a Subaru. I'd love the Jeep for all the reasons mentioned, but am wondering if I really need the off-road performance. I'd like it of course---I have driven on trails with rocks and dried out lakes in Baja, Mexico and other dirt roads, and would've preferred a Jeep to my current non-off road vehicle (rather than parking a half mile from the camping area and having to get a ride in with someone with a truck...argh.) but I'm thinking I could probably get by with some skid plates on a Subaru. I need to test drive a Trailhawk though before deciding, and read some postings here from new owners who test it out off-road. Thanks or this insightful string!
For sure Trailhawk trims of Cherokees or even Renegade have more crawling capability than the Subaru SUVs... It is actually not fair to compare any of the Subaru SUVs to the Trailhawks because these are crossovers with Off-Road Mods from the manufacture...

On the other side, I know that the packaging of the belly parts in Subarus is done with off-road in mind, clearance is very good compared to other SUVs and even more than basic Jeep trims... Also I heard that the Outback has protective plates in its belly...
Karamich is offline  
post #23 of 74 (permalink) Old 04-13-2015, 10:41 AM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Karamich's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Canada
Posts: 187
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 69 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by raz-0 View Post
It really isn't. There's gear reduction, there's how you couple things, there's how you set up differentials and what locks and unlocks.

What is traditionally referred to as 4wd will not run at highway speeds. The renegade system should be able to.

Realistically there are maybe 4-5 systems lumped in as 4wd. They are not functionally the same. There are probably about 6-7 you'd class as awd and growing.

The renegade system differs from my subie system by one limited slip diff, software, a button and the ability to disconnect the drive shaft to avoid parasitic loss.

It takes the tricks being added to awd for safety and performance and uses those tricks to simulate a 4wd system. But it has no gear reduction ability, and it won't lock all wheels into equal power distribution, which are pretty much assumed features when using the 4wd tag. Also viscous vs. mechanical couplings, etc. Wet clutches vs. dog clutches.

I personally think it's clever and interesting, but it's not really traditional 4wd. It's not a particularly traditional awd system either. But awd is a much looser term and still kind of evolving.
Yes I agree and thanks for the technical inputs... I decided to use the 4WD instead of AWD terminology to go in the flow of the discussion here... My Patriot is 4WD indeed for low speed activation only...

But at the end of the day, and bringing back the topic to its roots, I still think deeply that putting the Trailhawk trims on the side, Subaru SUVs are not inferior at all in terms of capability from Cherokees, Renegades or Patriots / Compasses with 4WD / AWD / 4x4 or whatever they call it...

What makes a Jeep crossover stand out from Subaru is the Trailhawk trims that are actually mods from the manuf. and that are in my opinion the only trims that are worth it when it comes to choosing between a crossover from Jeep or the competition...
Karamich is offline  
 
post #24 of 74 (permalink) Old 12-18-2015, 05:56 PM
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 22
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13 Post(s)
I actually wanted the Jeep Renegade before I ended up with a Subaru Forester Turbo, Renegades did not come out till much later and I could not wait. Plus with little additional turbo technology other than the multi air cooled 1.4 liter, it was not a tough decision as I did not want the 2.4 liter tiger shark model. The Subaru is very capable off road as I have taken mine off road and in snow/ ice it is very impressive. Subaru's AWD system is a vector motoring with open diffs, it is more or less a controlled AWD system whereby sensors monitor stability and makes 1000s of adjustments per second or two. Also with X - Mode the Subaru can go up large slopes with ease.

I would have loved to compare the Renegade to it but there were none to compare. So far it has been a good little sport ute and I can not complain. However, I doubt the trail hawk in 2.4 liter trim would be as capable and if it were then in a straight line it would be no contest. If Jeep every ups the game then a SRT variant with the 2.4 liter turbo motor would be worth a look. However, Jeep needs to work on their AWD systems, if they added the Wranglers system to the Renegade it would be better but mpg would suffer. Really Jeep is and always has been the Wrangler.
ScoobySnaXT is offline  
post #25 of 74 (permalink) Old 12-18-2015, 11:01 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Loveland, CO
Posts: 430
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 180 Post(s)
Subarus are not in the same league as a Cherokee Trailhawk. The Cherk Trailhawk has an actual low range with locking center and rear differentials.

The Renegades use on demand 4wd, unless the lock button or other mode is chosen. The transition from 2 to 4wd is almost unperceetable. What turned me away from Subaru was the CVT.

I didn't get the Renegade for it's off-roading ability. I have a 77 Cherokee that will go places in 2wd that Renegade or Subaru can't go in 4wd, and carry far more stuff. I got the Renegade because it is 4wd, fits me well, is easy to park, and gets descent mileage. And no CVT.
27665 is offline  
post #26 of 74 (permalink) Old 12-19-2015, 12:48 AM
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 22
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by 77cherokee View Post
Subarus are not in the same league as a Cherokee Trailhawk. The Cherk Trailhawk has an actual low range with locking center and rear differentials.

The Renegades use on demand 4wd, unless the lock button or other mode is chosen. The transition from 2 to 4wd is almost unperceetable. What turned me away from Subaru was the CVT.

I didn't get the Renegade for it's off-roading ability. I have a 77 Cherokee that will go places in 2wd that Renegade or Subaru can't go in 4wd, and carry far more stuff. I got the Renegade because it is 4wd, fits me well, is easy to park, and gets descent mileage. And no CVT.

Not sure if you are serious or just joking, My Subaru Forester XT can do things larger 4x4 vehicles can not do cause it is small and has less footprint. The Wrangler would have been a better argument, and I am a former Wrangler owner. The CVT is probably the best I have ever driven it simulates 8 gears and runs through them like a computer program.

To get LSD and locking differentials you have to get the STI with Subaru but the AWD system is about the best AWD system on the market excluding AUDI who builds a similar system in their Quattro cars. The boxer engine at 250 hp is detuned and there are guys running 280-300 hp stock on a small sport ute.

Name another vehicle under 30 grand with AWD, Turbo and 250 hp?

can not probably do it unless you go to the Volvo and Land Rover branded EVOQUE. The Forester is not for everyone and I get that, had the Renegade been out in Sept 2014 then I would have bought that more than likely; however, Dodge dealers like Ford dealers have to be the worst at managing releases and getting new models to the public without charging surcharges or prices over MSRP.

I see a lot of misrepresentation on this thread in regards to what Subaru is and what they do. They use boxer motors which is unique and a longitudinal direct drive setup while most makers in AWD form use traversed mounted engines. I have owned lots of 4 wheel drive cars and trucks and Subaru application is by far the best on road AWD system out.

Last edited by ScoobySnaXT; 12-19-2015 at 12:52 AM.
ScoobySnaXT is offline  
post #27 of 74 (permalink) Old 12-19-2015, 04:03 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Stirling, Scotland
Posts: 106
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 31 Post(s)
My thoughts. Subaru have stuck with their AWD, any road, all weather formula and, in europe at least, have slowly but steadily built up a fierce brand loyalty whilst widening their customer base. When they started selling cars in the UK they had agents selling more cars at agricultural shows than were sold through the small independant and largely rural dealer network and it wasn't until they paired the Impreza with McCrae that the brand was catapulted into more buyers thoughts. Now, the market has changed in favour of the type of car, the crossover, that Subaru has sold all along and their cars are in more buyers considerations. But still they remain fully comitted to that original formula for all their vehicles and have never gone fully mainstream. The target is reputation and repeat orders. FCA on the other hand is still emerging from a fight for survival and views Jeep as its ace card. Needing to attract buyers to the brand quickly they are dipping into the mainstream by offering "tuned down" Jeep vehicles suited to that customer base. Perhaps the plan will re-generate brand loyalty and over time Jeep can re-define their own winning formula but for now if selling a low riding 2wd car means that I personally can go out and buy a higher riding 4x4 or Awd version then I'll go along with that for a while. What I hope long term is that the name is restored to the point where it once again represents go-anywhere functionality.
Why Jay is offline  
post #28 of 74 (permalink) Old 12-19-2015, 09:18 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Loveland, CO
Posts: 430
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 180 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScoobySnaXT View Post
Not sure if you are serious or just joking, My Subaru Forester XT can do things larger 4x4 vehicles can not do cause it is small and has less footprint. The Wrangler would have been a better argument, and I am a former Wrangler owner. The CVT is probably the best I have ever driven it simulates 8 gears and runs through them like a computer program.
I admit, the Subaru AWD system is great on the road. It is when things get rough that the Subarus show their limitations. Subarus don't have much ground clearance. The lowest point on my Cherokee is about ten inches, and that is at the diffs. I slide a five gallon bucket under it when I change the oil. It only has three inches of lift and 33 inch tires, so it isn't that high. The turning radius is similar to a Forrester (I have driven Forresters before). But the biggest difference is that the Cherkee's 4wd system is superior off road to a Subraru. I have far, far better gearing and the ability to lock my diffs. Fancy traction control is still no match to being able to lock all four wheels together. The Cherokee also has a better transmission, it's a five speed manual. It also has 95 cu ft of cargo volume (with back seat out) and can tow 5000 lbs.
27665 is offline  
post #29 of 74 (permalink) Old 12-19-2015, 09:32 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 129
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 34 Post(s)
I have always owned a Subaru before buying my Dodge Challenger. When I came back to the states from Germany they wouldn't let me test drive ge new STI (even though my srt chally was twice the vehicle) so I got a 15 srt instead.. After getting tired of borrowing the wife's truck to go off-road fishing ect... I traded the challenger on the jeep.

I loved my forester and have driven all Subies made. They don't hold a candle to the wrangler, and none of the Subies come close to the trailhawk either. Subarus do great on plowed roads or ice, they get good gas mileage and the turbo and v6 models over power all jeeps made (except srt) however, throw in a rocky road or unplowed road, give me a jeep any day.
Girenegade is offline  
post #30 of 74 (permalink) Old 12-19-2015, 09:43 AM
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 22
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Girenegade View Post
I have always owned a Subaru before buying my Dodge Challenger. When I came back to the states from Germany they wouldn't let me test drive ge new STI (even though my srt chally was twice the vehicle) so I got a 15 srt instead.. After getting tired of borrowing the wife's truck to go off-road fishing ect... I traded the challenger on the jeep.

I loved my forester and have driven all Subies made. They don't hold a candle to the wrangler, and none of the Subies come close to the trailhawk either. Subarus do great on plowed roads or ice, they get good gas mileage and the turbo and v6 models over power all jeeps made (except srt) however, throw in a rocky road or unplowed road, give me a jeep any day.
Honestly, the new Forester 14+ XT models, not sure of the normal ones have as much ground clearance as a Jeep Cherokee plus all the bottom below the oil pan is metal skid plated for durability. I have gone off road with it, but it does have its limits. If I want to do hard core stuff then that is where my '11 Raptor comes into play. It can and will do things a Wrangler can't (Trailhawk or Rubicon), but when you compare apples to oranges you are not really comparing the correct things.

The 2.4 liter tiger-shark is an unproven design, and anyone who knows Chrysler/ Dodge previous 4 cylinder efforts in this line up will know they do not make the best 4 cylinders out. The 1.4 multi air is nice but really only available in a Latitude True the Subaru does not lock diffs but it does not have too. It can do anything a Cherokee Trailhawk can and more than do what the Renegade Trailhawk can. You all do realize the Renegade is based on the 500L platform right? It is basically a Fiat with a different body, and it is smaller than the Forester more like the Crosstek.
ScoobySnaXT is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Jeep Renegade Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



  Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
KBB says Subaru ranks lowest among all U.S. car brands CalTom Off-Topic Discussion 13 02-18-2015 12:58 PM
Jeep BU Renegade Selec-Terrain AWD Modes Willy Transmission 10 02-12-2015 09:51 AM
Does Jeep Renegade have always on AWD or is it part time 4wd? niceguybigjeep Jeep Renegade General Discussion 15 12-23-2014 11:37 AM
AWD Soul?! timsvtgen1 Other Jeep Talk 4 09-14-2014 01:47 PM
Jeep BU Renegade AWD Systems Willy Transmission 0 03-05-2014 12:41 PM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off