Another Transmission Issue - Jeep Renegade Forum
 6Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 32 (permalink) Old 05-25-2019, 10:30 AM Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Prescott, AZ
Posts: 80
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 21 Post(s)
Another Transmission Issue

Within the last two weeks I've experienced a somewhat scary problem with my 2015 2.4 Latitude Automatic (build date 12/14) with approx 47K miles. One was in somewhat cold weather (under 40 deg F) and once in warm weather (70 deg F yesterday). The problem is this: when sitting from a stop there isn't really a delay when stepping on the gas but then there's a lurch forward to the point it feels like I've been rear ended (without the sound of crushed metal and broken plastic of course but prompting a quick look in the rear view mirror nonetheless).



I've been looking at the numerous transmission threads and in a few there are a few mentions of this lurching but it's seems it's part of numerous other transmission issues along with it. So far this is my only issue. I'll be calling the dealer here when they open to get it in but I'm looking to see if anyone has dealt with this issue alone and what fixes were offered.



I noticed some have had software updated and this resolved the problem (I believe mine has the latest) but I can't wrap my head around the fact that somehow software can go "bad" all else being the same and then there are those who had the transmission replaced. I can't believe that it there isn't something mechanical going on to cause this. Coincidentally, I did receive a recall notice with the following items the other day but a check says mine has been repaired S25 Reprogram Powertrain Control Module, S55 Transaxle Range Sensor Wire Harness.


I hope this is covered under warranty; my 3 year 36K is gone but powertrain is longer I think.
Commando is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 32 (permalink) Old 05-25-2019, 11:39 AM
Senior Member
 
dgr401's Avatar
 
First Name: Dennis
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Rhode Island, USA
Posts: 751
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 182 Post(s)
Garage
Powertrain warranty on the 2015's is 5 years, 100,000 miles. There is a class action lawsuit that is supposed to extend the mileage to 120,000 miles but keep it at 5 years, not sure if it is in effect yet. Good luck at the dealer, keep us posted.

2015 Renegade Latitude - Sierra Blue
dgr401 is online now  
post #3 of 32 (permalink) Old 05-25-2019, 11:23 PM
Junior Member
 
First Name: Everett
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Battle Creek, Michigan
Posts: 3
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
The software is adaptive. It will take average count of how you drive and it will adjust shift points based on your "normal" method of driving. I would try using the manual shift and see if it does the same thing. Shift at 2500 rpm for the first four gears, 2100 rpm after. That's the smoothest point I've found. You'd probably want to try different points to see how it reacts. Of course, I am sure you are knowledgeable. Not trying to tell you what to do; just a minor suggestion to see if it happens manually too.

I have a '15 with the 9 speed. I have owned it for just over two years and have had it reflashed at the dealership once already. I am at 65K and here are the issues I am facing.

I am going to have to have the fluid and filter changed; a typical transmission service. I am also going to, at the same time, have the transmission reflashed again. Start from scratch. Why? In the winter when the transmission is cold, it shifts real bad, lagging between gears something awful. It doesn't even out until it gets up to running temp. I am hoping others can maybe direct me as well.
slinghigh likes this.

PHP Code:
:ReneBlueWave
Everett E. Morris

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


2015 Jeep Renegade Sport
2.4 Litre Tigershark
9 Speed Automatic
Fourstring71 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 32 (permalink) Old 05-26-2019, 09:27 AM Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Prescott, AZ
Posts: 80
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 21 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by dgr401 View Post
Powertrain warranty on the 2015's is 5 years, 100,000 miles. There is a class action lawsuit that is supposed to extend the mileage to 120,000 miles but keep it at 5 years, not sure if it is in effect yet. Good luck at the dealer, keep us posted.

Set to go in on Wed. Funny, when I made the appointment, they were able to confirm I didn't have any outstanding recall issues but not whether the transmission had a 5 year/100,000 warranty.
Commando is offline  
post #5 of 32 (permalink) Old 05-28-2019, 11:58 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 885
Mentioned: 115 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 212 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Commando View Post
Within the last two weeks I've experienced a somewhat scary problem with my 2015 2.4 Latitude Automatic (build date 12/14) with approx 47K miles. One was in somewhat cold weather (under 40 deg F) and once in warm weather (70 deg F yesterday). The problem is this: when sitting from a stop there isn't really a delay when stepping on the gas but then there's a lurch forward to the point it feels like I've been rear ended (without the sound of crushed metal and broken plastic of course but prompting a quick look in the rear view mirror nonetheless).



I've been looking at the numerous transmission threads and in a few there are a few mentions of this lurching but it's seems it's part of numerous other transmission issues along with it. So far this is my only issue. I'll be calling the dealer here when they open to get it in but I'm looking to see if anyone has dealt with this issue alone and what fixes were offered.



I noticed some have had software updated and this resolved the problem (I believe mine has the latest) but I can't wrap my head around the fact that somehow software can go "bad" all else being the same and then there are those who had the transmission replaced. I can't believe that it there isn't something mechanical going on to cause this. Coincidentally, I did receive a recall notice with the following items the other day but a check says mine has been repaired S25 Reprogram Powertrain Control Module, S55 Transaxle Range Sensor Wire Harness.


I hope this is covered under warranty; my 3 year 36K is gone but powertrain is longer I think.
Hi Commando,
We certainly understand how concerning this may be. Please let us know how your appointment goes. We're happy to assist with this process as well. Private message is the best way to reach us.
Lydia
Jeep Social Care Specialist
JeepCares is online now  
post #6 of 32 (permalink) Old 05-29-2019, 06:07 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Kansas City Metro
Posts: 101
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 23 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Commando View Post
Within the last two weeks I've experienced a somewhat scary problem with my 2015 2.4 Latitude Automatic (build date 12/14) with approx 47K miles. One was in somewhat cold weather (under 40 deg F) and once in warm weather (70 deg F yesterday). The problem is this: when sitting from a stop there isn't really a delay when stepping on the gas but then there's a lurch forward to the point it feels like I've been rear ended (without the sound of crushed metal and broken plastic of course but prompting a quick look in the rear view mirror nonetheless).



I've been looking at the numerous transmission threads and in a few there are a few mentions of this lurching but it's seems it's part of numerous other transmission issues along with it. So far this is my only issue. I'll be calling the dealer here when they open to get it in but I'm looking to see if anyone has dealt with this issue alone and what fixes were offered.



I noticed some have had software updated and this resolved the problem (I believe mine has the latest) but I can't wrap my head around the fact that somehow software can go "bad" all else being the same and then there are those who had the transmission replaced. I can't believe that it there isn't something mechanical going on to cause this. Coincidentally, I did receive a recall notice with the following items the other day but a check says mine has been repaired S25 Reprogram Powertrain Control Module, S55 Transaxle Range Sensor Wire Harness.


I hope this is covered under warranty; my 3 year 36K is gone but powertrain is longer I think.
I want to point out, for those who may not know, that software is partially hardware dependent. Software in the car resides in memory integrated circuits (ICs). A memory IC (an item of hardware) contains many storage cells, one cell per digital bit of storage. Although production controls are rigorous, cells are not perfect or even uniform. Some will deteriorate more than others over time. So one cell or another may change its state: from 0 to 1 or from 1 to 0, over time. This is more likely to happen under extreme conditions: extreme heat or cold temperature, or during periods of unusually low or high voltage, for example. Such events may happen on a "one-off" basis, and be detected first in vehicle operation. The symptom depends on which function the bad bit controls, and may be either dramatic (if a status control), or undetectable in operation (if the bad bit is the least significant bit in a number field, for instance).
slinghigh likes this.
9th Gear Fan 1937 is offline  
post #7 of 32 (permalink) Old 05-29-2019, 06:58 PM Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Prescott, AZ
Posts: 80
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 21 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by 9th Gear Fan 1937 View Post
I want to point out, for those who may not know, that software is partially hardware dependent. Software in the car resides in memory integrated circuits (ICs). A memory IC (an item of hardware) contains many storage cells, one cell per digital bit of storage. Although production controls are rigorous, cells are not perfect or even uniform. Some will deteriorate more than others over time. So one cell or another may change its state: from 0 to 1 or from 1 to 0, over time. This is more likely to happen under extreme conditions: extreme heat or cold temperature, or during periods of unusually low or high voltage, for example. Such events may happen on a "one-off" basis, and be detected first in vehicle operation. The symptom depends on which function the bad bit controls, and may be either dramatic (if a status control), or undetectable in operation (if the bad bit is the least significant bit in a number field, for instance).

Good info and just reminds us of the frailty of modern vehicles. All of our previously primarily mechanical systems are now subject to a fragile computer and it's software which more and more, it seems, has trouble performing in the harsh environment that is driving. Makes me long for the "old days"!



Anyway, my vehicle is in the dealership. No word yet on what might be wrong.
Commando is offline  
post #8 of 32 (permalink) Old 05-30-2019, 11:22 AM
Super Moderator
 
raz-0's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: US - NJ
Posts: 3,298
Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1056 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Commando View Post
I noticed some have had software updated and this resolved the problem (I believe mine has the latest) but I can't wrap my head around the fact that somehow software can go "bad" all else being the same and then there are those who had the transmission replaced. I can't believe that it there isn't something mechanical going on to cause this. Coincidentally, I did receive a recall notice with the following items the other day but a check says mine has been repaired S25 Reprogram Powertrain Control Module, S55 Transaxle Range Sensor Wire Harness.
Software doesn't go bad. It has bugs or it doesn't. When firmware fixes something, it means either they missed generating test cases for all real life interactions of the many systems and algorithms in the vehicle, or that the parts providing input to the software are not what was assumed or in spec, or that assembly or real life operating conditions generate more slop or tighter tolerances/clearances than presumed when originally writing the software.

For example, i got hit with the very early "improbably value" error for the transmission. According to FCA this was due to a sensor producing values outside of the expected range. The two choices were that the sensor was defective, or they developed the code for different behavior than the production sensor actually exhibited. The end result was they updated the software to not be confused by the sensor output values, and everything works normally.

Another example was that I would sometimes get a cold start lurch where from a cold start, I'd apply throttle, get very little forward motion, and then SLAM things would engage in a neck snapping way. This was an example of the software logic being a poor fit with reality under specific circumstances. This would not happen if you backed out of your parking spot in the morning, because whatever was going on was done by the time you shifted into a forward gear. This wouldn't happen if you parked at the curb and took off like you stole it, because in that situation more than likely a different algorithm or strategy was chosen for the throttle, transmission, or AWD system, and you didn't get the convergence of behavior that cause the problem.

However if it was cool out, you parked curbside or otherwise went immediately into forward motion with moderate acceleration and staying below 30 mph, the vehicle would pull throttle input temporarily, you would likely try to give it more gas which did nothing, then it would stop pulling throttle and suddenly you are giving it the beans (or at least it's finally responding to you doing so) right when it's decided to lock up the dog clutches in the AWD system or in the middle of a shift expecting the throttle value to not change mid shift. Not sure which. But the result as someone who has to park curb side a lot was that fall and winter, I'd have a 50-50 chance of the thing being really sluggish and then WHAM!

Once they updated the software to avoid that as much as possible, it went from an every other morning problem or more. To a couple times each winter. Likely because they can't tweak one subsystem's behavior enough without negatively impacting a strategy that prevents significant wear, or because pushing changes to exclude the possibility entirely means they could be impacting the projected emissions of the vehicle in a way that could get them in trouble.

There was a VERY nice version of the firmware that shifted really well and got decent gas mileage. I miss it. I suspect it impacted emissions though as it went away with the first firmware update after FCA started being investigated for emissions tampering in software.

I suspect the 30mph groan is an example of the software can't cope with hardware tolerances as delivered. At least if you believe the one forum user form Italy that says they were able to fix his problem, but it required FCA engineers to come out and essentially drop a custom firmware on the vehicle with calibrated behavior in unlocking the clutch in the rear drive unit. The groan doesn't happen in 4wd mode because it forces it locked. IT doesn't happen in really cold weather for a lot of people because that changes the AWD engagement algorithm to using a different strategy for when and how it engages AWD. It doesn't happen over ~4xmph because around 50mph the AWD is forced to be disengaged for highway fuel economy. It doesn't happen when you disable traction control likely because they are doing something with prepping the wet clutch so that it can cope with wheel slip faster with TC on. But they likely can't ride that line without issues due to variation between units without either getting so lax TC doesn't work right, or going with the more aggressive cold weather algorithm, which would likley lower fuel economy and mean they were changing something their EPA emissions estimates were based on, and that last bit is a no-no.
slinghigh likes this.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
raz-0 is online now  
post #9 of 32 (permalink) Old 06-02-2019, 11:07 AM Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Prescott, AZ
Posts: 80
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 21 Post(s)
Update-Another Transmission Issue

Quote:
Originally Posted by Commando View Post
Within the last two weeks I've experienced a somewhat scary problem with my 2015 2.4 Latitude Automatic (build date 12/14) with approx 47K miles. One was in somewhat cold weather (under 40 deg F) and once in warm weather (70 deg F yesterday). The problem is this: when sitting from a stop there isn't really a delay when stepping on the gas but then there's a lurch forward to the point it feels like I've been rear ended (without the sound of crushed metal and broken plastic of course but prompting a quick look in the rear view mirror nonetheless).



I've been looking at the numerous transmission threads and in a few there are a few mentions of this lurching but it's seems it's part of numerous other transmission issues along with it. So far this is my only issue. I'll be calling the dealer here when they open to get it in but I'm looking to see if anyone has dealt with this issue alone and what fixes were offered.



I noticed some have had software updated and this resolved the problem (I believe mine has the latest) but I can't wrap my head around the fact that somehow software can go "bad" all else being the same and then there are those who had the transmission replaced. I can't believe that it there isn't something mechanical going on to cause this. Coincidentally, I did receive a recall notice with the following items the other day but a check says mine has been repaired S25 Reprogram Powertrain Control Module, S55 Transaxle Range Sensor Wire Harness.


I hope this is covered under warranty; my 3 year 36K is gone but powertrain is longer I think.

I got my Renegade back yesterday and repair consisted of a software flash. The line item is as follow:


"Scanned for DTC's none present, looked for available software updates and TSB's has TSB 21-003-18 lists his concern as fixable with software, PCM and TCM are both out of date, need to be done at same time 18-19-06-UE 0.2 hr 18-19-05GX 0.2 hr flash programmed PCM and TCM to latest software level per TSB 21-003-18"


This was covered under warranty for which I'm grateful. It does make me wonder though, has anyone had software updates that were not covered under some sort of warranty? I suspect most owners on this forum still have warranty coverage but as these run out what kind of charges can we expect to see in the future should a "fix" require a software update. Mine has 47K on it now and if it needed a software fix with these miles, I'm sure it may again.


As for how it drives now, it does "feel" different . Hard to explain but shifts seem more immediate. Since my problem was so random, I don't know if this fixed it or not; only time will tell. I did notice that on the ride home I take a highway with a 65mph limit. Where my Renegade would usually get to 9th gear, yesterday it never made it out of 8th. There may have been a head wind so will monitor but am certain the shift points have been changed or TCM/PCM is re-learning.



I did a quick search of TSB 21-003-18 but did not find much so if anyone has any detailed info to share that would be most appreciated.
Commando is offline  
post #10 of 32 (permalink) Old 06-04-2019, 09:48 AM
Junior Member
 
elo2013's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: N Dallas
Posts: 1
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
My 2017 Rene Trailhawk with 13K miles was just left at the dealership with this same issue. It started three weeks ago. It only happens when I am at a stop position and barely pressing the gas. It's a hard jerk around the time the transmission is going from 2nd to 3rd gear. Then it goes away.
elo2013 is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Jeep Renegade Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










User Tag List




  Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
As of 2019 the Manual Transmission is gone (US/Can); what happens to M6 resale value? Mr LeRoy Transmission 19 04-06-2019 09:26 AM
Transmission wont shift into gear buckhorn Transmission 2 04-02-2019 05:33 PM
Transmission Issue after lift. Joe Bradshaw Problems/Issues 6 09-03-2018 06:18 PM
Stalling Issue, Tons of warning lights domran91 Problems/Issues 17 08-08-2018 12:26 AM
'16 Renegade Trailhawk Transmission being replaced Movement360 Transmission 5 12-10-2017 09:12 AM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off