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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I am on my third snowstorm with the Renegade. Handling is fantastic, however, braking is DISMAL! It just sliiiiiiides when I hit the brakes in snow. It's literally more effective for me pump the brakes manually with my foot than to use the ABS. This is the worst snow-stopping performance of any car I have ever driven. I took one of my gearhead buddies out at lunch today and he said it was like the ABS wasn't even working. I have to remember to start stopping twice ahead of where I normally stop at in snowy conditions! iirc it has Continental LX Sport tires on it.

The only solution I can think of, short of remembering to stop at like quadruple the distance, is to change over to snow tires. That's assuming that tires are the problem. My two previous Kia Souls were excellent at stopping in the snow (Optimo tires, I believe). I can't fathom why my Renegade is so horrible at it. I've been doing winter driving in New England for over 15 years, primarily in FWD cars, so I have plenty of experience. My wife's AWD Forester doesn't have this issue. I've tested my Renegade in both AWD & 4WD-Lock/Snow, same results.

Is this a unique issue to my car? Is it the tires? Maybe I need a flash update for the ABS?
 

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ABS lengthens stopping distances.

I suspect this is being exacerbated by the stock tires tread design and/or compound. Most likely culprit is that the all season siping sucks and the compound is firmer for fuel economy, and they basically behave like bald tires after they fill a bit with snow.

My friend bough a forrester slightly before I bought my renegade. The tread design on it was definitely better designed for snow than the wranglers on my trailhawk. However, they seem ok to me because I spent the last 19 years driving AWD vehicles with Z rated all season tires, so my stopping distances are already calibrated to something less grippy than the TH's stock tires as far as I can tell.

dunno, the OEM hankook optimos for the kia get pretty dismal snow ratings from owners on tire rack, and looking at the tread design, they don't look like they'd fare well etiher.

The cross contacts look to have a good tread design with lots of siping, although hey don't look well designed to pump water out the outside edge, just the inside edge, so i'd expect mediocre perfromance in significant slush or puddles. If the alignment of the vehcile they are on favored the outside shoulder, I'd expect them to have reduced bad weather performance.

Also it may be a factor of how aggressive traction control and stability control intervention are. If you have a safe location to experiment, you cxna try turning of the traction control and ESC. short press is traction I believe, press and hold 10 seconds turns both off.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
ABS lengthens stopping distances.

I suspect this is being exacerbated by the stock tires tread design and/or compound. Most likely culprit is that the all season siping sucks and the compound is firmer for fuel economy, and they basically behave like bald tires after they fill a bit with snow.

My friend bough a forrester slightly before I bought my renegade. The tread design on it was definitely better designed for snow than the wranglers on my trailhawk. However, they seem ok to me because I spent the last 19 years driving AWD vehicles with Z rated all season tires, so my stopping distances are already calibrated to something less grippy than the TH's stock tires as far as I can tell.

dunno, the OEM hankook optimos for the kia get pretty dismal snow ratings from owners on tire rack, and looking at the tread design, they don't look like they'd fare well etiher.

The cross contacts look to have a good tread design with lots of siping, although hey don't look well designed to pump water out the outside edge, just the inside edge, so i'd expect mediocre perfromance in significant slush or puddles. If the alignment of the vehcile they are on favored the outside shoulder, I'd expect them to have reduced bad weather performance.

Also it may be a factor of how aggressive traction control and stability control intervention are. If you have a safe location to experiment, you cxna try turning of the traction control and ESC. short press is traction I believe, press and hold 10 seconds turns both off.
I'll give that a shot today. There was only 1/4" on the ground at lunch today & it was like going down a slip & slide. My buddy's older 90's Civic (with Blizzaks) had zero problems. I'm leaning towards the tires being the issue, but it could be the way the ABS handles. I haven't read any issues about snow stopping performance with the Renegade, so maybe my ABS computer just needs to be flashed or something, haha.

I actually did the test drive in my second Kia Soul (leased the first one, no ESC on that model) in a snowstorm. There was like 4" of snow on the ground & it did fantastic thanks to the addition of ESC. Never had any problems with the stock tires in rain or snow.

I don't know exactly what is causing this in my car. It feels like the ABS only grabs at the last little bit, like if you're going 5 MPH or slower. We haven't had a bad winter here (this is only the third snow storm all season, usually we're buried by now), so I don't know if snow tires are worth investing in right now. I know they would help, but if it's the ABS or something else that's the problem, I dunno.
 

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I almost got hit by an oncoming plow because of the brakes! I was going like 5-10mph and went to stop normally and it took over. I couldn't push the pedal. It was like a brick was under my pedal. The harder I pushed it didn't change. I felt hopeless. It didn't even slow me down. It was just the resistance of the snow slowing me down. Never had this issue with any vehicle before.
 

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I almost got hit by an oncoming plow because of the brakes! I was going like 5-10mph and went to stop normally and it took over. I couldn't push the pedal. It was like a brick was under my pedal. The harder I pushed it didn't change. I felt hopeless. It didn't even slow me down. It was just the resistance of the snow slowing me down. Never had this issue with any vehicle before.

Protip: when you brake on snow, it is ALWAYS just the resistance of the snow against your tires slowing you down unless you cut through the snow to the blacktop. That's every car ever. If you lock them up it is sub optimal. ABS is sub optimal. Braking to the threshold when the wheel spins just enough to jettison some of the snow from the treads is optimal. We get ABS and other fun things because the vast majority of drivers' performance peaks at the numbers for locking them up.

As for it feeling like a brick, the renegade has electronic brake force distribution, brake force assist (presses the pedal harder for you even if you are physically unable), and what they call ready alert braking (preemptively decreases the gap between pad and disk depending on how suddenly you take the foot off the accelerator and some other factors). Not having pedal fade isn't a bad thing.

You should have heard some ABS action though, which on the renegade is VERY not subtle.
 

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Raz-0 reinforces what I know about ABS. The ABS system allows the wheels not to lock up in a hard stop, preventing an out of control situation. And like Raz-0 said, the 4 season tires that are supplied are more of a 3 season tire. Bottom end snow tires would be better served than best in class 4 season tires.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
I know how abs works. Im just surprised on how easily the vehicle takes over. I know they are not snow tires on it but dang.
Thank goodness I'm not the only one! I nearly T-boned a guy last week because I slid halfway through an intersection - luckily he saw me sliding and arced away, but it was REALLY scary because I wasn't prepared for the car to just turn into a sled like that. That's what made me go out & start testing snow-stopping abilities, which is when I discovered it wasn't just a snowy day (hadn't even iced over yet that day!). Again, I have 15 years of experience driving through Vermont, Mass, CT, etc. winters, so I'm not an unseasoned noob who thinks AWD/4WD will magically let me drive normally in the snow...there's something wrong with the car.

I'm torn between thinking it's the tires or the ABS system. The ABS acts funny, much different than any other car I've driven. Braking normally on snow does a very light ABS effect, kind of an undulation in the brake. Braking hard (REALLY pushing down) gives it more bite, but it doesn't really clamp down until you're already down to just a few miles per hour, then it does it's magic.

I'm on the fence about buying snow tires; that would at least rule out that it's not the tires if I still have the issue (and I suspect snow tires will help quite a bit). I've NEVER had to buy snow tires before on any of my other cars though (mostly FWD too!). It's already February 8th & we've only had 3 snowstorms here (unusually warm winter), none of them bad (last was 9" & it melted within a day). I don't know if we'll get anymore snow & ice or not; $500 is a lot to blow on a "maybe", but given my near-accident the other day, I'm tempted to be safe rather than sorry. I can probably skate through this season simply knowing how the car will react (and hoping no one cuts me off & hits their brakes and stops quicker than I do, which people do a lot here I live...random left-lane turns haha).

The weird thing is...I live on a steep hill. I can climb it no problem with the Jeep; at least a few times a year in all of my other cars, I'd have to park at the bottom & hike because I simply couldn't get up. So I suspect more the ABS than the tires, but I'm not 100% sure. I have no issues when power is applied, it's ONLY when braking. I've also tried manually pumping, but it still slides like a sled.
 

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Thank goodness I'm not the only one! I nearly T-boned a guy last week because I slid halfway through an intersection - luckily he saw me sliding and arced away, but it was REALLY scary because I wasn't prepared for the car to just turn into a sled like that. That's what made me go out & start testing snow-stopping abilities, which is when I discovered it wasn't just a snowy day (hadn't even iced over yet that day!). Again, I have 15 years of experience driving through Vermont, Mass, CT, etc. winters, so I'm not an unseasoned noob who thinks AWD/4WD will magically let me drive normally in the snow...there's something wrong with the car.

I'm torn between thinking it's the tires or the ABS system. The ABS acts funny, much different than any other car I've driven. Braking normally on snow does a very light ABS effect, kind of an undulation in the brake. Braking hard (REALLY pushing down) gives it more bite, but it doesn't really clamp down until you're already down to just a few miles per hour, then it does it's magic.

I'm on the fence about buying snow tires; that would at least rule out that it's not the tires if I still have the issue (and I suspect snow tires will help quite a bit). I've NEVER had to buy snow tires before on any of my other cars though (mostly FWD too!). It's already February 8th & we've only had 3 snowstorms here (unusually warm winter), none of them bad (last was 9" & it melted within a day). I don't know if we'll get anymore snow & ice or not; $500 is a lot to blow on a "maybe", but given my near-accident the other day, I'm tempted to be safe rather than sorry. I can probably skate through this season simply knowing how the car will react (and hoping no one cuts me off & hits their brakes and stops quicker than I do, which people do a lot here I live...random left-lane turns haha).

The weird thing is...I live on a steep hill. I can climb it no problem with the Jeep; at least a few times a year in all of my other cars, I'd have to park at the bottom & hike because I simply couldn't get up. So I suspect more the ABS than the tires, but I'm not 100% sure. I have no issues when power is applied, it's ONLY when braking. I've also tried manually pumping, but it still slides like a sled.

Im with you on this. Its almost scary driving in the snow up here. Im in mass. We are getting snow right now. I didnt have it happen today but i was already on edge from fridays storm. I used to drive truck for a living through blizzards snow storms ice you name it. In a semi and 4 wheels. Ive never had this happen to me.
 

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. . . My buddy's older 90's Civic (with Blizzaks) had zero problems. I'm leaning towards the tires being the issue, . . .
Many all-season tires are not that good in very slippery snow. Real winter tires (like Blizzaks you mentioned) will make a huge difference.

If there was something wrong with the braking system or the ABS module, I would assume an error would illuminate the MIL.
 

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I'm realizing things now about ABS from reading this stuff. I think all the more reason to try to get as much traction as you can. I got the FWD and wanted to try the winter tire route. I haven't driven in accumulated snow yet, but I notice The difference already in cold or damp roads. Now when I hear people complain of vehicles lacking pick up, power, traction ,etc...I will ask what tires they have. Are you rocking tires for the right season?
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
I'm realizing things now about ABS from reading this stuff. I think all the more reason to try to get as much traction as you can. I got the FWD and wanted to try the winter tire route. I haven't driven in accumulated snow yet, but I notice The difference already in cold or damp roads. Now when I hear people complain of vehicles lacking pick up, power, traction ,etc...I will ask what tires they have. Are you rocking tires for the right season?
Never in my 15+ years of winter driving have I had to buy snow tires.

I'm thinking about it though...but it's already February & we've only had 3 snowstorms, none of them bad. Not sure if it's worth blowing $500+ on a Blizzak & TPMS set when we may not get anymore snow for the year...hmm.
 

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Did you get the 4wd or fwd? My last vehicle was Awd. In that vehicle I felt pretty confident I wouldn't get stranded in the snow,ice..etc, except maybe on a hill...so I tried to avoid known hills. Driving in bad weather is something I try to avoid anyway unless I have to. But anyway, in my last vehicle I had all season tires and got through the snow/ice (except got stuck once on a hill) but still slid around, especially when trying to come to a stop!, and I do remember the dang ABS preventing me from doing what I wanted to do...or at least that's how I felt. Luckily I never had to replace just one tire, because the manual said if you replaced one you should replace all four, unless of course you only had a couple thousand miles on them. The 4wd Renegade is $2000 more than the 2wd. I went with the 2wd and got the My Sky instead. I figured if it got bad enough I'll get winter tires. Well when we just had almost two feet of snow I shoveled my driveway area as best I could. There was a still some snow. I was able to drive forward through it, then I tried to back up the driveway and couldn't back up the slight incline. My old Awd would have made that. That's when I decided it was time for the winter tires.
If you have the 4wd, I think if you are driving in snow/ice you should put it on lock, but don't expect to not slide around a little or through stop signs, especially on hills! If you had 4wd and winter tires, that would be nice!
 

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Oh..ok..you did get 4wd version. For the most part you should be able to get where you need to go, but from my experience with all seasons you'll still slide around at times, so be careful and happy trails!..;)
 

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I am on my third snowstorm with the Renegade. Handling is fantastic, however, braking is DISMAL! It just sliiiiiiides when I hit the brakes in snow. It's literally more effective for me pump the brakes manually with my foot than to use the ABS. This is the worst snow-stopping performance of any car I have ever driven. I took one of my gearhead buddies out at lunch today and he said it was like the ABS wasn't even working. I have to remember to start stopping twice ahead of where I normally stop at in snowy conditions! iirc it has Continental LX Sport tires on it.

The only solution I can think of, short of remembering to stop at like quadruple the distance, is to change over to snow tires. That's assuming that tires are the problem. My two previous Kia Souls were excellent at stopping in the snow (Optimo tires, I believe). I can't fathom why my Renegade is so horrible at it. I've been doing winter driving in New England for over 15 years, primarily in FWD cars, so I have plenty of experience. My wife's AWD Forester doesn't have this issue. I've tested my Renegade in both AWD & 4WD-Lock/Snow, same results.

Is this a unique issue to my car? Is it the tires? Maybe I need a flash update for the ABS?
I had this happen ( Thank god I was in my driveway ) the first big snow we got. From what I noticed...snow had caked up on the brake pads..and I had to pump the brakes before I could get some stopping power. Now out of habit whenever I get in the car after it had snowed..I pump my brakes a few times before I even move. Haven't had an issue since.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
The interesting thing is...stopping performs far better on ice than on snow! We had an ice storm the other day and stopping was a non-issue. Same with rain. It's ONLY in snow that it's an issue (whether in AWD mode or 4WD/Snow mode).
 

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Hmm, we had a few inches of snow I got to drive in. The renegade is a ~3500lb awd vehicle, last car was a ~3500lb awd vehicle, car before that was a ~3500lb awd vehicle.

There was absolutely nothing wonky about how it stopped, and the stopping distances were better than with my previous two cars. Which is what I would expect given that the ABS system is newer with more computer power behind it, and that it's not riding on z-rated all season tires.

One mistake a lot of people make with AWD is that they think they stop in snow as well as they get going in snow. It's not the case, and once you are going too fast for the conditions, stopping will become a problem just like nay other car.
 

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I suspect this is being exacerbated by the stock tires tread design and/or compound. Most likely culprit is that the all season siping sucks and the compound is firmer for fuel economy, and they basically behave like bald tires after they fill a bit with snow.
This. All of it.

Protip: when you brake on snow, it is ALWAYS just the resistance of the snow against your tires slowing you down unless you cut through the snow to the blacktop. That's every car ever. If you lock them up it is sub optimal. ABS is sub optimal. Braking to the threshold when the wheel spins just enough to jettison some of the snow from the treads is optimal. We get ABS and other fun things because the vast majority of drivers' performance peaks at the numbers for locking them up.
I cannot stand ABS in the winter, it is atrocious! I know that I can stop better without it, but what are ya gonna do? My 91 Miata was the best car I've ever had in the snow, mainly because it had NO driver aids whatsoever.

All of this talk made me think of this pic:

 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Hmm, we had a few inches of snow I got to drive in. The renegade is a ~3500lb awd vehicle, last car was a ~3500lb awd vehicle, car before that was a ~3500lb awd vehicle.

There was absolutely nothing wonky about how it stopped, and the stopping distances were better than with my previous two cars. Which is what I would expect given that the ABS system is newer with more computer power behind it, and that it's not riding on z-rated all season tires.

One mistake a lot of people make with AWD is that they think they stop in snow as well as they get going in snow. It's not the case, and once you are going too fast for the conditions, stopping will become a problem just like nay other car.
My problem is that it is much worse than my other AWD car (Forester) and previous FWD cars.

I've had other problems with this car (squealing brakes, BCM failure that killed the car @ ~3k miles & had to be towed into the dealership, etc.). I wonder if my ABS system is goofed up too...
 
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