As a Subaru owner, I'll give you some perspective. Mis-engineered I my car.I can not disagree with the article regarding the Patriot because I own one and they are absolutely right about its low reliability and quality.
I know a friend who owns a Compass and was crying for anyone to buy it so he can get rid of its endless problems
I am on this forum because the Renegade in its TH trim is on my shopping list, I like its design and off-road capability etc but this is my emotional side speaking... Now if I think rationally, I shall get far away from Jeep. For this reason my brain is heading toward Subaru (clearly more expensive)
So if we put emotion and denial on the side, we shall admit that Jeeps despite their iconic and mythical role in the history of automotive, they are one of the least reliable vehicles out there...
For off-road capabilities, I tend to think that someone who can afford the gaz of a Wrangler, shall get the Toyota's off-roaders instead (FJ and 4Runner) being more reliable...
All in all, I own a Jeep, a Patriot and my friend a Compass and I can tell you that they show signs of noizy suspension, many parts start giving trouble early on in their age and they tend to age badly... Now my 2010 at 87.000KM (54000Miles), feels, sounds and behaves like a 15 or 20 years old Japanese one...
Thanks for the input but I have the same question as CalTom, what Subaru model / year you own? I am considering the Outback 2015...Stupid phone and editing time out. What I was trying to get out.
As a Subaru owner, I'll give you some perspective. Mis-engineered I my car.
1) dash horrific rattle from the first winter. They didn't fix the design for 3 years of production. Wouldn't fix it under warranty despite three tsbs on the issue.
2) spark plug change costs $500 cause you can't do it on most models without dropping the engine, at least partially.
3) the Subaru sound is unequal length exhaust. This caused cylinder one to go lean in models before my car leading to head gasket leaks. They proclaimed it fixed with the new 2.5. It was. Now a different cylinder goes lean and you kill the head gasket on the other side.
4) their paint is about as durable as cotton candy.
5) electrical gremlins plagued the Hvac unit and dash. Mostly display issues. But also included drivers side window controls.
6) one thermostat for dual zone HVAC and it is located in the driver footwell.
7) self destructing wheel bearings all around. They had to do an extended warranty recall. It covers basically one change of a part that destroys itself at regular intervals. They fought it until quite few vehicles had wheels fall off at speed.
8) all the fake "aluminum" paint wore through fairly rapidly.
9) The infamous tennis ball bushings on the steering. Let's just say super tennis balls were not meant to be ground between steering linkage under the weight of a car for extended periods.
Specifically 2005-2008 legacy. I stuck with mostly generic items that applied to all trim levels. The head gasket thing is more common on the turbos which I had, but not exclusive. For a turbo exclusive, you can add the metal intercooler with plastic end tanks would start leaking due to the tabs that held it together deforming. I also left off the fact that the timing belt service is in the upper half of cost, because newer ones are timing chain, and it's far from the only vehicle with that.Raz, what year and model Subaru is yours your describing? My wife wants a new Forester, but now you have me concerned.
Thanks again for the information. I have no doubt that Subaru has its load of issues but I think that as an overall, Subarus statistically are more durable and live more on our streets here in Montreal Canada than any old jeep or American car in general.Specifically 2005-2008 legacy. I stuck with mostly generic items that applied to all trim levels. The head gasket thing is more common on the turbos which I had, but not exclusive. For a turbo exclusive, you can add the metal intercooler with plastic end tanks would start leaking due to the tabs that held it together deforming. I also left off the fact that the timing belt service is in the upper half of cost, because newer ones are timing chain, and it's far from the only vehicle with that.
I'll also point out if you think the article's perspective is worthwhile, the exact same sources they "analyzed", 2 out of three had subaru adjacent on the list. CR places subaru a bit higher.
CR also has ford in the #2 spot for unreliability. I know a few people with previous generation escapes with over 300k on them. On the other hand, I know people with Edges that have gone through multiple transfer cases.
I know lots of people with RAMs with several hundred thousand miles on them, but RAM takes spot [URL=http://www.jeeprenegadeforum.com/forum/usertag.php?do=list&action=hash&hash=1]#1 0[/URL] on CR's 10 most unreliable vehicles. GM doesn't, but I know several people with suburbans who for a similar 300k-ish life span went through 3-4 rear ends. (all of them contractors of some flavor or another, but one who put his milage on it as a newspaper photographer).
A lot of the hit for the FCA brands comes down to the issues with their TPDM, which pissed a lot of people off.
Cost to replace is is about $1200 at the dealer.
Cost for a subaru head gasket replacement is about $1100.
IMO, execution on vehicles are getting pretty good and pretty similar. What is increasingly the divide amongst them are design and engineering choices. Almost everything I listed that has been an issue with my subaru has been a design or engineering choice that was wrong, not quality control, and almost all of them required you to own the vehicle for a year or more to find out about them.
We still get ranked lists, but very often these days they are talking about a difference between first and last that used to embody the difference between #1 and #2 0 15-20 years ago.
The biggest risk for rust with the subaru seems to be the ultra delicate paint. Keep it touched up and it wouldn't likely be an issue. If you are referring to a subaru. It's not clear.Very interesting. My son is very pro-Subaru for many reasons, but also will readily ID the problems throughout the model years. He prefers the old GL subarus.
He is also a ASE mechanic so repairing a subaru to him is no more work than reaching for the TV remote for the rest of us.
I fully expect to replace at least half of the moving parts in my hope-for 20 years of ownership. Just so long as the non-moving parts don't rust out. That would p*** me off.
Hi Reg, thanks so much for pointing this out, my wife wants a new Forester, but now, like you, I'm really concerned. I've been reading a bunch of the posts on oil consumption and it seems somewhat random on the latest 2015s.I was shopping Foresters as my next vehicle because one can be bought with a manual pretty well equipped, and the vehicle is easy to see out of, relative to most modern crossovers. Unfortunately, spending time on Subie enthusiast's forums has scared me away due to the oil consumption issues. Do a little research and you will find many die-hard Subaru folks swearing off the brand due to this problem. There were quite a few owners ('11-'13 model year) that had rings replaced and the problem persisted, only to trade for a 2014 and have the same problem. Many were disappointed with Subaru's handing of the issue (mainly denial).
The thing with the oil consumption is not so much the consumption, although I have an older engine than the new 2.0s. It's that the Subaru dipstick is nearly useless. It doesn't really perform its basic function at all. You CAN get a reading, but it pretty much involves putting it to bed right and checking with careful technique in the morning and you get ONE shot to do it right.Hi Reg, thanks so much for pointing this out, my wife wants a new Forester, but now, like you, I'm really concerned. I've been reading a bunch of the posts on oil consumption and it seems somewhat random on the latest 2015s.
These two posts explain how this is a know quirk of the boxer engine design:
So this weekend when I'm at the California Orange County Auto Show looking at the new Renegade and checking out Camp Jeep, I'll checkout the redesigned 2015 Honda CR-V for my wife, and maybe a few others.
Thanks Raz, are you having to check oil at every fuel fill, like some discuss?Chucking in a bit of oil is not that big a deal if you can actualy keep an eye on it and tell when.