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Just wondering if anyone else got their Automobile magazine today, and saw the "Ignition by Design" column by Robert Cumberford? It is titled "Sorry, this plastic bathtub toy is not a real Jeep." I usually like his column, but this just seemed like cranky old man stuff. I can only imagine that he hated the Cherokee too.

But the "New Cars for 2015" feature has the Renegade in the opening page, and lists the price as $19,500 (est.).

Just FYI
 

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I did not read the article, but a friend mentioned it.

To a point, he is correct. This vehicle is more a Fiat stylized to look like Jeep than a traditional Jeep being globalized for overseas manufacture and international sales. For a brand steeped in rugged, off-road tradition, this one is a stretch.
That being said, I think most compact SUVs have devolved into glorified aerodynamic wagons not worthy of venturing off a maintained fire-road, the Subie Forester excepted.
Hopefully, the Renegade will be worthy of the Jeep label and no diminish the brand.
 

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In the follow up story, the author continues...

Can you believe Ford no longer makes the 1929 Model A, have you see those new Fords lately, those are not real Fords.

Phones, Cell phones, Smartphones, don't get me started on those new fangled contraptions, give me a good old rotary desk phone, thats all anyone needs.

Pads, a real pad is a good old legal yellow pad, don't even bother to try to explain what an iPad is.

I could go on, but the editor said we are on deadline and we have to sell magazines, he mentioned something about something new called the Internet, that it may make our beloved magazines obsolete, what is he talking about, magazines will never die!
 

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In the follow up story, the author continues...

Can you believe Ford no longer makes the 1929 Model A, have you see those new Fords lately, those are not real Fords.

Phones, Cell phones, Smartphones, don't get me started on those new fangled contraptions, give me a good old rotary desk phone, thats all anyone needs.

Pads, a real pad is a good old legal yellow pad, don't even bother to try to explain what an iPad is.

I could go on, but the editor said we are on deadline and we have to sell magazines, he mentioned something about something new called the Internet, that it may make our beloved magazines obsolete, what is he talking about, magazines will never die!
So, is the original article sarcasm and he follows up by mocking himself?
If so, I get it. :)
As I said before, I like the boxy unique shape, I hope the vehicle is up to snuff, not so much because of the Jeep name, but in spite of the Fiat origin if that makes sense.
 

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Can you believe Ford no longer makes the 1929 Model A, have you see those new Fords lately, those are not real Fords.
LOL

I think that each vehicle has to be judged on its own merits, not based on comparing it to the entire history of a brand.
 

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LOL

I think that each vehicle has to be judged on its own merits, not based on comparing it to the entire history of a brand.
That is a good point, especially in a globalized market. I have acquaintances that are fiercely loyal to some of the Japanese brands, claiming "anything made by <insert brand #1> is better than <insert brand #2>. Consumer Reports even reported several years back that some of its highest and lowest rated vehicles were from the same manufacturer and that vehicles should be evaluated individually rather than by brand.
Folks are passionate about automobiles. The emotional factors likely overwhelm the analytical considerations when evaluating this purchase. Much more so than, say, a washing machine or lawnmower.
 

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Wow that was some epic whining. Here I was thinking he might have done more than look at a picture. I wonder how he managed to hold his tongue since the advent of the grand Cherokee.

I wonder if he eve owns a jeep that complies with his jeep orthodoxy.
 

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Or on second thought, it's just a warning shot to fiat that they better buy more ads if they don't want to be disparaged.
 

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Another editorial knocking the brand. I currently drive the 2014 Jeep Cherokee Limited
which Consumer Reports has challenged. I feel they're report is completely wrong and biased; the same is true with Automobile magazine recent rant on the beloved little Renegade. Yes, it may share components and be built by Italians, but plenty of engineering went into this to make it a Jeep.

Consumers will once again slap CR and Automobile magazine in the face once the little Jeep takes off like the bigger Cherokee with sales.

I feel my Cherokee has no 9 speed transmission glitches surpasses the competition as far as packing, build quality and value.
 

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Being the Renegade will share the same 9 speed transmission as the 2014 Cherokee KL, lets collect experiences and information here. The 9 speed had a lot of growing pains early, are they gone? Will the 2.4L Renegade engine be easier for the 9 speed to handle than the 3.2L Cherokee engine?
What other information can we assume?

To start this thread off I've asked woodythompson1 to give us his feedback since he owns a 2014 Cherokee KL with a 9 speed transmission.

How has it performed from day one?
Have you had to have the software reflashed?
How are the shifts, is it erratic or smooth?
Does it feel or sound like a CVT trans, always winding up the engine to higher RPMs before shifts?
 

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In photos and videos I love the look of the Renegade. The TrailHawk edition has a great rugged look to it, and its trail rated (even if it is rated a 4). In NJ I want a sporty rugged looking SUV that is 4x4 because I need to get to work in the winter. I always loved the wranglers but for the price and poor MPG I might get the TH Renegade because of the look high MPG for a 4x4 SUV and it is more practical for having a family in the future compared to the Wrangler. Obviously the wrangler blows the Renegade away in off roading, but that is not what I would be purchasing it for. Hoping the price of the TrailHawk with an added package comes in around $26,000-$27000
 

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Cumberford is a pedant who sees himself as some sort of authority on automotive "styling." His columns in automobile magazine have been one of the worst features of the publication for a long time.

He actually says in the article that the Renegade is a good looking car; his issue with it is that it carries the Jeep name and is not styled enough like an old iron-sided Willys. Who cares?
 

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Cumberford is a pedant who sees himself as some sort of authority on automotive "styling." His columns in automobile magazine have been one of the worst features of the publication for a long time.

He actually says in the article that the Renegade is a good looking car; his issue with it is that it carries the Jeep name and is not styled enough like an old iron-sided Willys. Who cares?
He's part of the problem, the people who think the Renegade shouldn't have the Jeep badge, I don't see why it shouldn't have the Jeep badge.
 

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In the follow up story, the author continues...

Can you believe Ford no longer makes the 1929 Model A, have you see those new Fords lately, those are not real Fords.

Phones, Cell phones, Smartphones, don't get me started on those new fangled contraptions, give me a good old rotary desk phone, thats all anyone needs.

Pads, a real pad is a good old legal yellow pad, don't even bother to try to explain what an iPad is.

I could go on, but the editor said we are on deadline and we have to sell magazines, he mentioned something about something new called the Internet, that it may make our beloved magazines obsolete, what is he talking about, magazines will never die!

Difference is this: The Ford Model A was replaced by better options over the last 100 years. Rotary phones have been replaced by smartphones which do more. Everything else in the marketplace has gotten better, not worse.

The Renegade is the worst Jeep ever made. It's the least capable, one of the smallest, most difficult to work on, cheesiest vehicle that has ever worn the Jeep nameplate since 1941.

So your comparison is apples to oranges. Everything else is going forward....Jeep is going backward.
 

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Difference is this: The Ford Model A was replaced by better options over the last 100 years. Rotary phones have been replaced by smartphones which do more. Everything else in the marketplace has gotten better, not worse.

The Renegade is the worst Jeep ever made. It's the least capable, one of the smallest, most difficult to work on, cheesiest vehicle that has ever worn the Jeep nameplate since 1941.

So your comparison is apples to oranges. Everything else is going forward....Jeep is going backward.
Only if your definition of better is a 30 year old wrangler.

Handling on road has gotten worse?

Road noise?

Crash safety?

Fuel economy?

Off roading isn't the only metric, and won't keep the brand alive. You need better margins or volume, both of which require stepping out of that niche.

Hopefully it doesn't mean abandoning that niche, but it might be worth it to be rid of the people whining that people like something other than what they like.
 

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Difference is this: The Ford Model A was replaced by better options over the last 100 years. Rotary phones have been replaced by smartphones which do more. Everything else in the marketplace has gotten better, not worse.

The Renegade is the worst Jeep ever made. It's the least capable, one of the smallest, most difficult to work on, cheesiest vehicle that has ever worn the Jeep nameplate since 1941.

So your comparison is apples to oranges. Everything else is going forward....Jeep is going backward.
If you hate the Renegade so much before seeing it in person, touching it or test driving it, why are you here?

I believe the Renegade will be at least as capable as the Patriot and it will definitely be more capable then the Compass.

How do you know that is will be the most difficult jeep to work on as no one has hands on experience with it yet? If is based on the ability to lift it, it will at least tie with the new Cherokee for difficulty.

The 'cheese factor' is always in the eye of the beholder.

Scott
 

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Only if your definition of better is a 30 year old wrangler.

Handling on road has gotten worse?

Road noise?

Crash safety?

Fuel economy?

Off roading isn't the only metric, and won't keep the brand alive. You need better margins or volume, both of which require stepping out of that niche.

Hopefully it doesn't mean abandoning that niche, but it might be worth it to be rid of the people whining that people like something other than what they like.
Handling? Road noise? Crash safety? Grand Cherokees from 10-15 years ago will spank the new Renegade in every single one of these categories. I'll give you fuel economy....but the fuel economy of the Renegade is NOT going to be as awesome as some here expect.

Yes, they have no choice but to step out of the box a little...but anything with a Jeep name stuck on it should at very least be a capable vehicle off the pavement and this thing will drag it's belly over some railroad crossings I pass daily. It's a joke.

Ask yourself this: why do people still buy, build, and cherish 20 and 25 year old Jeeps (and not just the Wrangler) in 2014? Because Jeep had something nobody else ever did...solid axles, flexy suspension, offroad angles that got the job done all while doing so in comfort and style. Who will be looking for a 2014 Renegade in 2034? Absolutely nobody. Why? Because the Renegade is exactly like every single other vehicle in the category. There is no longer anything setting Jeep apart. Yes, offroad ability IS the gold standard metric that should be adhered to.

Like I've said before, the Renegade is going to appeal to a lot of people. I myself am intrigued a bit which is why I am here. But the more details we see about this, the more I'm convinced that it's very much diluting the Jeep brand.
 

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Handling? Road noise? Crash safety? Grand Cherokees from 10-15 years ago will spank the new Renegade in every single one of these categories. I'll give you fuel economy....but the fuel economy of the Renegade is NOT going to be as awesome as some here expect.

Yes, they have no choice but to step out of the box a little...but anything with a Jeep name stuck on it should at very least be a capable vehicle off the pavement and this thing will drag it's belly over some railroad crossings I pass daily. It's a joke.

Ask yourself this: why do people still buy, build, and cherish 20 and 25 year old Jeeps (and not just the Wrangler) in 2014? Because Jeep had something nobody else ever did...solid axles, flexy suspension, offroad angles that got the job done all while doing so in comfort and style. Who will be looking for a 2014 Renegade in 2034? Absolutely nobody. Why? Because the Renegade is exactly like every single other vehicle in the category. There is no longer anything setting Jeep apart. Yes, offroad ability IS the gold standard metric that should be adhered to.

Like I've said before, the Renegade is going to appeal to a lot of people. I myself am intrigued a bit which is why I am here. But the more details we see about this, the more I'm convinced that it's very much diluting the Jeep brand.
So Jeep is on a downward spiral if they build anything cheaper than a grand cherokee, except something that looks like a <=92 wrangler?

Also of note, people cherishing your 25 year old product doesn't make you money. I've babied a beloved 25 year old car. Here's a tip, 99.99999999999999999999999% of cars ever made are not interchangeable for that beloved 25 year old car. I wouldn't have traded my 69 'cuda for a wrangler of any vintage. I DID have to bite the bullet and realize there'd be money for a reliable and fun daily driver, but not enough to restore it to the point it would be reliable enough to be the only ride.

I would also never try to collect the 88 camry I owned for a while, but I had a bunch of fun in it, and liked it well enough. Gave it to my aunt after her car got killed in a flood, and she liked it too, and bought another toyota when the next flood killed that one at around 280k miles. (then thankfully moved to someplace less floody). It doesn't have to be a classic, just be well liked, move units, and hopefully keep buyers attached to the brand. The world will not end if those buyers don't give a hoot about off-roading. Making off-roading the gold standard for the brand? They have been there. There's a reason there are new owners multiple times over for the brand. Keeping really small populations of people who get bent out of shape about the fact a brand offers something they don't like that appeals to others placated isn't a business strategy. Accept they make it, and if you want to make noise, make noise about keeping the wrangler line alive and capable rather than frothing at the mouth about how dare they put MY brand on something not approved of by ME.

I will also note that a 10 year old grand cherokee with 100k miles on it seems to sell for about $9-10k. I don't consider that a deal. I will also point out it has a marginal rating for side impact. It's roll over test was not so great, it has no LATCH system, and no dynamic head restraints or adjustable belt mounts. Not even in 2010 when it went away. I'm not sure why you are confident it will "spank" a vehicle you have yet to meet in person on any category other than off road capability? I'll also point out the 2.4l engine only gives up 25 hp to the base v6 and 50hp to the v8. It's less, but do you think the curb weight will be 4400lbs? The cherokee shaves off about 400 lbs from it, I suspect the renegade will shave at least a few more. It'll also have a lower cneter of gravity more than likely and handle better. Unless of course your metric is once again off-roading.

Of course, given that the whole trail rated thing was a way of life... an ethos... rather than simply a marketing campaign and a general engineering trend, that explains why they never sold anything but a 4x4 trim level, right?

I truly don't understand what people thing getting their panties all in a wad over the renegade's existence will actually do and why it is important to them. It's a brand. Who cares. They also slap it on strollers and radios and a bunch of other things. I can understand why they advocate for the core abilities of the wrangler model when they say it has to compete for a broader audience. THat doesn't mean that it has to be made a soft roader, but it does mean that it might have to step up it's game with regards to absolutely every other aspect of owning a car that it is fairly mediocre at (and I'm being kind there).

Also, when I suggest that to keep to the off-raoding first and only ethos, that the brand would have to get REALLY expensive, go look at land rover. They tried that and are still not a healthy company. Trying to go that path with the brand would mean that their vehicles would still essentially vanish form the market for the vast majority of fans of the brand.
 
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