[Spock]

Competition makes vehicles better.

Without the existence of the Ford Mustang and the Chevrolet Camaro, Dodge never would have been developed the Hellcat edition of the Challenger.

Jeep improves the Wrangler at a glacial pace. Why? It has no real competition. Even the FJ Cruiser is facing extinction.

Could this be the fate of the forthcoming Renegade too? Is there any vehicle that will compete directly with the Renegade?

I saw this today:

www.autoblog.com/2014/08/28/chevy-niva-concept-offroad-moscow/

The best thing that could happen to the Renegade? General Motors decides to bring a nearly identical version of the Niva to the American market.

 

[CalTom]

I saw this earlier, but choose to ignore it, it is a joint venture in Russia with Chevrolet. You know for every joint venture in Russia there are a few, no more that a few, rubles making there way to Putin's and his cronies pockets.

Me, for one would never buy this, even though it looks okay, as I would never fund Putin's imperialistic expansionism crusades, as evidenced by headlines about Ukraine, this just being the latest pursuit of this perennial Russian oligarch.

Me, I've personally lived through the last Cold War, lets not encourage the next one, my recommendation to all forum members, show zero interest in it, so Chevrolet realizes there is no market for it.

 

[Spock]

They wouldn't have to build the North American version in Russia.

General Motors has factories all over the world.

 

[CalTom]

What Putin wants Putin Gets...

Court Backs Order to Alter GM Deal
A court has upheld an order by anti-monopoly authorities that could cut into the profits of U.S. auto giant General Motors' landmark venture with AvtoVAZ in Tolyatti.
The clause directly stated that AvtoVAZ was to reduce production of the Niva to decrease competition for the Chevrolet Niva," anti-monopoly service spokeswoman Irina Kashylina said Tuesday.
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/article/court-backs-order-to-alter-gm-deal/230758.html

Booming Russia offers risks and rewards for automakers
When it came time to form a full-fledged equity partnership, AvtoVAZ turned to Renault. GM is now in talks with Russia's No. 2 automaker, GAZ, after a bumpy relationship with AvtoVAZ that showed the risks of doing business in Russia. In addition to the dramatic ups and downs and the tedious bureaucracy that characterize emerging economies, corruption is rife, and the Russian government intrudes with a heavy hand in the energy, media, auto and other sectors it considers critical.
http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20080522/AUTO01/805220398

The deal with Renault enjoys the support of the Russian government and some powerful men in the entourage of Russian president Vladimir Putin. Moscow spent US$1 billion to bail out AvtoVAZ in 2009 and it would dearly want the company to stand on its own two feet - especially since Togliatti, a city of some 1m inhabitants, is a company town par excellence, completely dependent on its automotive plant. Renault could expect special treatment from local and federal authorities.
http://www.eiu.com/industry/article/1280982112/russia-cars-avtovazs-new-dawn/2013-09-20

AvtoVAZ suffered considerably in the 2008-2009 world economic crisis. In October 2008, the company was reported to possess over 100,000 unsold units, and desperately needed money to repay short-term debts. On March 31, the value of AvtoVAZ shares jumped by almost 30%, due to Prime Minister Vladimir Putin's proclaimed determination to support the auto giant. Putin visited Togliatti, expressed his approval of the management for not initiating massive layoffs, and promised more than $1 billion in loans, cash, and guarantees.[18]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AvtoVAZ

 

[Spock]

What part of "They wouldn't have to build the North American version in Russia. General Motors has factories all over the world" did you not understand?

You do realize that Jeep is owned by an Italian company? And that Italy was our enemy during the second world war?

 

[Spock]

Jeep Renegade Makes Its Russian Debut At 2014 Moscow Auto Show

http://indianautosblog.com/2014/08/jeep-renegade-143195

 

[CalTom]

IF Chevrolet builds in the US, then it would be a cross licensed back to AvtoVAZ, with dollars going back to Putin's war machine. Last time I checked there is an embargo on many Russian issues.

Yes, Italy was our enemy during the second world war, but Putin has not declared the Cold War over, when he does and the embargo's are lifted, then one may consider it okay to buy. But, that is not likely to happen until Putin's tenth term in office, NOT.

 

[Spock]

What part of "Jeep Renegade makes its Russian debut at 2014 Moscow Auto Show" did you not understand?

Should we not buy the Renegade because Jeep does business in Russia?

 

[CalTom]

This thread is about Chevrolet, the Jeep Renegade will be built in Italy, there is no Joint Russian venture for Jeep.

So all Russian people, please buy the Renegade, it will be a much better vehicle than the Chevrolet Niva. Also, since the Chevrolet Niva is based on the infamous Lada quality, you know to run, not walk from them.

 

[Spock]

You didn't answer the question.

Jeep does business in Russia. Therefore, money from Jeep flows into Putin's war machine.

Should we not buy a Renegade because Jeep does business in Russia?

 

[CalTom]

The percentage of Jeep profits that stay in Russia are funded by the Russian's themselves, I'm fine with that.

The percentage of Jeep profits that flow back to Jeep corporate, priceless.

 

[Spock]

That's hypocritical.

An American consumer buying an American-made version of a vehicle similar to the Niva from an American salesperson at an American dealer that is part of the dealership network for an American corporation (General Motors) owned primarily by American shareholders could in no way be considered "supporting Putin's war machine" by any reasonable person.

But thanks for the entertaining extremism anyway.

 

[CalTom]

well then, I hope you enjoy your new Lada Niva, oh, sorry, the marketing guys changed the name to Chevrolet Niva.

And, most of all enjoy your Lada Quality:
While initial sales were promising, reports of poor quality and reliability for the Samaras soon began to take their toll and by 1996 sales had crashed to under 100 units. Ladas were imported into Australia after 1994, but it took two years to sell the remaining stock.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lada#Australia

Lada - Gone, and best forgotten
http://www.autonet.ca/en/2013/11/17/lada---gone-and-best-forgotten

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lada_Niva

 

[Spock]

Using Wikipedia as a reliable source? Really?

And those aren't even the correct links. Let me help you.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet_Niva

QUOTE: "Its off-road ability is exemplary compared with many modern budget SUVs, having been designed for tough tundra territory."

 

[belgian]

The Lada Niva was/is a great car for what it is designed for: a cheap, simple, rugged, small 4x4 sort of like an old Suzuki Samurai. It is, however, worthless for anyone expecting any degree of comfort or class since it is an ancient Soviet design.

The Chevy Niva on the other hand, looks like a jacked up old Aveo with some butch trim. It will look ridiculous without the basket, lights, matte paint, and giant tires which it will almost certainly not come with from the factory.

 

[raz-0]

The niva in reality is not the concept vehicle. Posting of the concept vehicle on jalopnik got some insightful comments from people who actually have driven the non-concept niva over the years. The consensus was that it was awful.

From an on road perspective, renegade will have plenty of competition. The cafe schedule also won't let it sit still.

 

[Willy]

To drag Politics back into this Putin has done nothing above and beyond what America has been doing for years?

If we're going to hold grudges stop buying BAYER medication, IBM kept track of the Jews, Coca-Cola developed Fanta for the Nazi's, Hitler gave Henry Ford a MEDAL for his 75th birthday. If you use fuel at ALL, it likely has its roots in Standard oil who sold fuel to BOTH sides, CHASE bank froze jewish accounts and facilitated banking for the Nazi's and Random House publishing ( I have one of their books in my bag right now) used to publish hitlers propaganda.

Point being this nationalistic bullshit is bullshit designed to could minds and segregate people. The grass is not greener on our side of the fence, we just use a different shade.

 

[Jeepers]

I agree that Russia is being a dick right now. I would try not to support him if I can avoid it, but that is fairly difficult in today's economy. I stopped buying Russian Vodka (though I didn't buy much in first place). Hopefully the sanctions do a lot of this work for us by restricting our access to Russian products.

I am not totally convinced that this vehicle is really going to support Putin and Russia if you buy it though. Not every Russian is bad, some just have jobs and want to make some money by building cars.

 

[tony]

well then, I hope you enjoy your new Lada Niva, oh, sorry, the marketing guys changed the name to Chevrolet Niva.

And, most of all enjoy your Lada Quality:
While initial sales were promising, reports of poor quality and reliability for the Samaras soon began to take their toll and by 1996 sales had crashed to under 100 units. Ladas were imported into Australia after 1994, but it took two years to sell the remaining stock.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lada#Australia

Lada - Gone, and best forgotten
http://www.autonet.ca/en/2013/11/17/lada---gone-and-best-forgotten

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lada_Niva

i would kill to have one of those.

 

[bunburry]

I agree that Russia is being a dick right now. I would try not to support him if I can avoid it, but that is fairly difficult in today's economy. I stopped buying Russian Vodka (though I didn't buy much in first place). Hopefully the sanctions do a lot of this work for us by restricting our access to Russian products.

I am not totally convinced that this vehicle is really going to support Putin and Russia if you buy it though. Not every Russian is bad, some just have jobs and want to make some money by building cars.

tyhe sanctions will do more damage to us than to the russians. remember that this whole mess started because America was trying to circumvent ukranian politics.