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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
The US Mobil oil finder says:

0W-20 viscosity and oil that meets Chrysler MS-6395.

Mobil doesn't have any oil that meets the Chrysler spec. That's why I am looking for the required API and ACEA ratings.
 

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The owner manual for 2.4L engine reads; 0W-20 engine oils that are API certified and meet the requirements of Chrysler Material Standard MS-6395.

Pennzoil Platinum meets Chrysler MS-6395 requirements. Shell Helix also is listed in the manual. Hope this helps.

Clifton
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
The owner manual for 2.4L engine reads; 0W-20 engine oils that are API certified and meet the requirements of Chrysler Material Standard MS-6395.

Pennzoil Platinum meets Chrysler MS-6395 requirements. Shell Helix also is listed in the manual. Hope this helps.

Clifton
Hard to find in stores. I wonder if the MS-6395 oils are low or mid-SAPS oils.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
I downloaded the German Renegade manual and checked what oil requirements they list. They list 0W-30 ACEA C2, API SN for all engines. So that's a mid-SAPS, fuel-conserving oil spec. As is typical, in Europe the manufacturer recommends a slightly higher viscosity oil due to higher speeds driven and higher oil temperatures. In the US, due to CAFE, we are to use the more fuel conserving 0W-20 oils.


ACEA C2
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
I found the Pennzoil 0W-20 Walmart. It's their Platinum full synthetic oil, (made from natural gas). I
have used it in other engines with no problems.

Clifton
Actually, it's made from Group IV (polyalphaolefin) blended with Group III (hydrocracked minderal oil) nase stock. Pennzoil Platinum 0W-20 has an HTHS of about 2.6, if I remember correctly. Should be fine if the engine and thus the oil does not get very hot. For off-roading, the car packed with people and cargo, mountain and desert driving, I would want an oil with a higher HTHS.
 

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I downloaded the German Renegade manual and checked what oil requirements they list. They list 0W-30 ACEA C2, API SN for all engines. So that's a mid-SAPS, fuel-conserving oil spec. As is typical, in Europe the manufacturer recommends a slightly higher viscosity oil due to higher speeds driven and higher oil temperatures. In the US, due to CAFE, we are to use the more fuel conserving 0W-20 oils.


ACEA C2

The 2.4 is not available in Germany.
 

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The MOPAR SAE 0W-20 is the recommended oil for all operating temperatures. So why wouldn't you want to use the genuine oil recommended by the builder of the engine?

You sound like you may be a petro engineer?

If the recommended oils do not suit you, a custom blender can mix whatever oil you feel will satisfy your requirements. I would expect your warranty would be voided if your blend caused an engine failure.

My oil hasn't been changed yet, but I'll use one of factory the recommended oils when it's time to change.


Clifton













I
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 · (Edited)
The MOPAR SAE 0W-20 is the recommended oil for all operating temperatures. So why wouldn't you want to use the genuine oil recommended by the builder of the engine?
Because I do think low HTHS oils are chose for the sake of maximizing fuel economy over engine protection. Essentially, under high load and high oil temperatures, a low HTHTS oil simply cannot protect as well as an oil with a higher HTHS. The questions is when you reach the critical point. Keeping the oil cool, with an additional oil cooler is one way to ensure proper lubrication at high oil temperatures. Achoosing an oil with a higher HTHS is another solution.



You sound like you may be a petro engineer?
I am not, but tribology is somewhat of a hobby or at least area of interest to me.

If the recommended oils do not suit you, a custom blender can mix whatever oil you feel will satisfy your requirements. I would expect your warranty would be voided if your blend caused an engine failure.

No need to go to custom blender. Just look at the various manufacturers' spec sheets and fine a suitable lube that fits your preferences.

My oil hasn't been changed yet, but I'll use one of factory the recommended oils when it's time to change

Clifton



And there is nothing wrong with your choice. The manufacturer has most certainly specified a suitable lube. But I'm a tinkerer!

I may well use 0W-20 during the warranty period, but after that I am more than willing to take the risk of trusting my own judgement. It's worked for me well in the past, and I am one of those who regularly relies on used oil analyses to gauge how well an oil is doing in my engine.

As for my oil choice. if Chrysler specs a mid-SAPS 0W-20 oil, there are many options for something a bit more stout, even it a slightly higher viscosity raises fuel consumption by 0.2% or something like that.

Remember, when cold a 0W-x oil is still very thick compared to how thin it is at operating temperature. A 0W-30 or 0W-40 oil will work perfectly fine in an engine that calls for 0W-20.

If you compare the suggested engine oil vicosities for the same engines between the US and European countries, you will usually find the manufacturer suggests a higher HTHS viscosity oil for the European market compared to the US market. The main reason are the higher allowable speeds on Autobahn and motorways.

I seriously doubt that the mutli-air hydraulic-driven intake valves require 0W-20 oil to function properly. My reasoning: if 0W-30 or 0w-40 oil were to thick at operating temperatures for the hydraulic system to work properly, it surely couldn't possibly work with 0W-20 before operating temperature is. A 0W-20 is thicker when cold then a 0W-40 when hot. The BMW VANOS system, which also adjusts intake valves via a complicated system is not exactly super-sensitive to oil viscosity. Considering how much the viscosity of any oil changes between cold and hot, it should not come as a suprise that there is quite a leeway regarding suitable oil viscosities.

I am sure the ever-decreasing oil viscosity specs are primarily CAFE-driven and not necessarily in the best interest of engine longevity.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Does anyone know if Royal Purple is MS-6395? I'm pretty sure it's Group IV stock.
Do you want to know if all RP engine oils meet MS-6395? Off the top of my head, no.

Here is how you find a manufacturer-approved oil for your vehicle:

1. Choose a engine oil brand and go to their Website.

2. Find the page or PDF that features comprehensive oil specs.

3. Look for the viscosity range the manufacturer recommends.

4. A manufacturer may have several oils with the same viscosity range, but with different spec approvals. Find the one that meets the proper spec.


If you can't find the proper viscosity and/or spec, move on to another brand and keep searching.

Since you are interested in RP, I will simply point you the right way and let you do your own legwork: http://www.royalpurpleconsumer.com/wp-content/uploads/PS_API_MotorOIl.pdf
 

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Thanks. You're right, I should have done a little more research on my own. I've used RP in the past and liked it. It looks like a couple of their oils meet the MS spec, but not 0W-20.

I'll stick with Pennzoil
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 · (Edited)
People, you got me going on oil. I just can't help it. HELP ME, I need help!

Just another comment: there is a difference between an oil "meeting a spec" and being approved by the car maker. An oil may well meet or exceed a spec, and companies like AMSOIL (cherry-picked for no particular reason. I could have mentioned Red Line, Royal Purple, Lubrication Engineers, Primrose, Schaeffer's, Hydrotex, TRC, SWEPCO etc) are quick to point that out, but that does not mean the oil is car maker-approved. The oil approval process is lengthy and costly. It comes down to trust between the oil manufacturer and the consumer whether or not to trust an oil "that meets the spec" without approval.

As long as the vehicle is under warranty I would recommend to follow the car manufacturer's recommendation when it comes to engine oil. Once the warranty is up, you can more liberally experiment, especially if you know what to look for. Some oil companies, I am not naming names (AMSOIL :p ) give you an engine warranty. Uh, good luck?

With approvals it works like this:

Oils are approved by either ACEA (European Automobile Manufacturers' Association) and/or API (American Petroleum Institute). The specific ACEA and API ratings will give you a good idea of the type of oil and its performance envelope. API SN is the current rating.

The International Lubricant Standardization and Approval Committee (ILSAC) gives also out engine oil ratings that relate to the performance envelope. I think we are now at ILSAC GF6.

In addition, car makers have their own very specific engine oil requirements. After all, the engineers know the engines they build best. One car maker may have many different oil specs for different engines.

So what’s the difference? There are many factors:

oil for gas engines
oil for diesel engines (deals better with particulates), often also suitable for gas engines
energy conserving oil (friction-modified)
oils that limit certain chemicals (for example sulfur), which may affect some emissions systems negatively
oils have different minimum requirements for viscosity range, shear strength, viscosity stability (thinning/thickening), the capacity to neutralize acids (combustion byproduct), limits on piston and valve deposits and so on and so forth
suitability for extended drain
etc

Tribology (lubrication science) is pretty complex and it’s really best to stick with the car maker’s recommendation. However, I have to say that car makers do change their recommendations over time. For example, there has been trend in the industry to go with lower viscosities that befit fuel economy. For example, Ford has been for years recommending 5W-20 for many engines, including the 6.2L V8 and 6.8L V10. For 2016 they have changed the recommendation to 5W-30. Is that because they got warranty claims form engines that wore prematurely on 5W-20? I don’t know and Ford doesn’t say. The thing is, all car makers have to meet CAFE (Corporate Average Fuel Economy) standards. One of the way to that is to lower friction in an engine by using lower visocoty oil. Of course, l.ower viscosity oil can, under certain circumstances (high oil temperature, increased pressure on friction surfaces/in bearings) result in increased wear.
 

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Seriously? What do they have other than the 1.4T? A n/a 1.4, and a at least one diesel?
In most Europe Union countries most Jeep Renegade sales are with diesel engine

diesel engines
1.6 Turbo Multijet II 88 kW (118 HP) FWD with 6 speed manual
2.0 Turbo Multijet II 103 kW (138 HP) with 6 speed manual or 9 speed automatic §(standard or low gearing)
2.0 Turbo Multijet II 125 kW (168 HP) with 9 speed automatic (Trailhawk)
In some markets there also a version with 2.0 Turbo Multijet II 88 kW with 6 speed manual

gasoline engines
1.6 E-TorQ 81 kW (109 HP) with 5 speed manual
1.4 Turbo Multiair 103 kW (138 HP) FWD with 6 speed manual or DDCT
1.4 Turbo Multiair 215 kW (168 HP) AWD with 9 speed automatic

Recommended engine oil for 1.4 Multiair engine oil is
SAE 0W-30 ACEA C2 / API SN 9.55535-GS1 or MS.90048

In Europe the main plant oil supplier for FCA is Petronas, for example the recommended oil for Fiat 500X with same engine is Selenia Digitek P.E. Contractual Technical Reference N° F020.B12 (Selenia is a Petronas brand)
 

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Pennzoil Gold Synthetic Blend meets the specs, that is what my dealer uses unless you upgrade to Pennzoil Platinum
 
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