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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
I am looking at new wheels/tires for the Renny TH however I would like to do this without using spacers. I am understanding that the TH wheels have an offset of 40mm, is this correct? So if I wanted to emulate wheels spacer(1"/25mm) then what should the offset or backspacing need to be to achieve this? I saw a picture of a TH on Jeep Renegade Americas that had the setup I wanted however there where no details, but I managed to find the wheels that were on it. They do not have the bolt pattern but sell blanks. Here is the wheels I am looking at http://www.motometalwheels.com/wheel/20344/mo970 Also if you look at the wheel specs, let me know which setup would be best, i.e 16" vs 17" and 8" or 9" wide.
Any help in this area is much appreciated!
 

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I hate wheel math, so double check everything I put here. A good page to remember which side of the plus/minus things live on

http://www.discounttire.com/dtcs/infoWheelOffsets.do

Backspace is the distance between the back/inside face of the hub, and the back/inside rim.

The renegade is a 6.5 inch rim for the 17s IIRC, and a +40mm offset, 65.1mm centerbore 5x110 bolt pattern.

If you want the effect of a 1" spacer, you want to essentially add -25.4mm of offest. So you'd want +14.6mm offset, 65.1mm centerbore, and for maximum backspacing you could support, you'd measure stock and add 25.4mm to it as you'd be moving it outboard. I haven't seen what the backspacing is, and it likely varies between the multiple available wheels as it is to the outside of the finished lip, not the inside edge that mates with the wheel bead.

This math is ONLY right for simply clearing the hardware you already clear with the wheels centered/pointing straight. All of this ignores any fitment while turning to lock in either direction.


So first up... that wheel won't fit without a backspacer to convert bolt pattern. Because it doesn't come in 5x110. When buying spacers, you REALLY want the kind the reproduce the hub lip AND support itself on the hub lip so it isn't just the bolts holding the thing on.

You don't really want to emulate a spacer unless you ahve to, as that gives you alignment issues to worry about.
 

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raz-0 explained things spot on. Here's another page that helped me understand the difference between offset and backspacing;

Offset vs Backspace

You'll often hear folks say something like "backspacing and offset are similar but different" - I don't know how many videos I've seen on YouTube that start out that way.

Simplest way to look at things;
Smaller offset means your wheel will mount further out. Wider stance.

Larger offset means your wheel will mount further in. Narrower (word?) stance.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Thank you very much. I see that those wheels come in blanks as well which lead me to which ones would work and the answers. I'm either going with 16" or stick to 17" with 8"or 9" width. I sent the company an message to get more details on the blanks. So essintally I need to find a wheel with -15 offset correct? That would be the closet to emulating the spacers. And hub centric spacer are the only way to go!
 

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Thank you very much. I see that those wheels come in blanks as well which lead me to which ones would work and the answers. I'm either going with 16" or stick to 17" with 8"or 9" width. I sent the company an message to get more details on the blanks. So essintally I need to find a wheel with -15 offset correct? That would be the closet to emulating the spacers. And hub centric spacer are the only way to go!
No, you'd still want +15 not -15. 0 = center of hub lines up with center of wheel. To emulate 1" spacers, you'd move the center of the hub one inch closer to the center of the wheel. Which results in a +15 offset. Technically +14.6mm.

When you are at that point, I'd stop and ask myself why do you want to emulate spacers?

Absent a lift kit, they don't help you fit bigger tires, and seem to actually cause rubbing at lock with the tires we can fit on the stock wheels anyway. If you just want a bit of side room and a wider look with some of the tires tried, the best answer may be something less than +40mm and more than +15mm.

However, for happiness of the vehicle, you don't want to move the center of the wheel too much, and going to an 8" rim from a 6.5" rim means you want to add some more offset math into that. And that's where I REALLY start hating wheel math. As things start adding up, and you start heading into the limits of suspension geometry and how beefy a given part is. It's what keeps your car from handling weird and from destroying your wheel bearings quickly. This all gets more sensitive when you add rotational mass to the wheel tire package, which is seriously likely in this application. So...

This is where reputable specialty shops and paying a premium for the wheels they stock come in handy. They in theory sit down with the wheels, test fit them with some tires, do some measurements, pick a new set that work better, and repeat until they have viable packages.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 · (Edited)
No, you'd still want +15 not -15. 0 = center of hub lines up with center of wheel. To emulate 1" spacers, you'd move the center of the hub one inch closer to the center of the wheel. Which results in a +15 offset. Technically +14.6mm.

When you are at that point, I'd stop and ask myself why do you want to emulate spacers?

Absent a lift kit, they don't help you fit bigger tires, and seem to actually cause rubbing at lock with the tires we can fit on the stock wheels anyway. If you just want a bit of side room and a wider look with some of the tires tried, the best answer may be something less than +40mm and more than +15mm.

However, for happiness of the vehicle, you don't want to move the center of the wheel too much, and going to an 8" rim from a 6.5" rim means you want to add some more offset math into that. And that's where I REALLY start hating wheel math. As things start adding up, and you start heading into the limits of suspension geometry and how beefy a given part is. It's what keeps your car from handling weird and from destroying your wheel bearings quickly. This all gets more sensitive when you add rotational mass to the wheel tire package, which is seriously likely in this application. So...

This is where reputable specialty shops and paying a premium for the wheels they stock come in handy. They in theory sit down with the wheels, test fit them with some tires, do some measurements, pick a new set that work better, and repeat until they have viable packages.
Thanks Raz-O. I meant to say +15 on the offset. And as far as spacers go I have heard to stay away from them, but considering there are lot of guys who have used them on their Renegades. I have seen a few people use Fuel/G-force wheels and others as well. I just want to fit some KO2 225/65r17 under her, but would like to switch up the factory look. So when people add spacers to their wheels are they increasing offset or decreasing it? And yes maybe 9" is to big, so I will stick to 8" or less. The picture attached is what is driving this discussion. Of course it was taken in South America so I don't have a lot of data on it.
 

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Thanks Raz-O. I meant to say +15 on the offset. And as far as spacers go I have heard to stay away from them, but considering there are lot of guys who have used them on their Renegades. I have seen a few people use Fuel/G-force wheels and others as well. I just want to fit some KO2 225/65r17 under her, but would like to switch up the factory look. So when people add spacers to their wheels are they increasing offset or decreasing it? And yes maybe 9" is to big, so I will stick to 8" or less. The picture attached is what is driving this discussion. Of course it was taken in South America so I don't have a lot of data on it.
When looking at rim width, you will also want to take the tire specs and recommendations into account. From the BFG site, the KO2's in a 225/65-R17 should be mounted on a rim that is from 6-8" wide. I am in the same boat as you are. I am already running the BFG's on stock rims with no issues, but I want to swap out the rims. Getting the specs down for backspacing to try and do it without running spacers is a pain.

Erik
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Erik, I would assume you have a TH as well? Got any pics of your setup? For cost I may just go with HHR wheels and spacers! I have also looked at the Cherokee TH wheels which are 17"'s and have a 35mm offset.
 

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Erik, I would assume you have a TH as well? Got any pics of your setup? For cost I may just go with HHR wheels and spacers! I have also looked at the Cherokee TH wheels which are 17"'s and have a 35mm offset.
Nope, I have a 15 black Latitude. Wouldn't have minded a TH, but the dealers were not dealing on those and I couldn't pass up the deal that they gave me on the Latitude.

I am looking at the Ultra Platinum Allure 252 rims, just need to pull a stock tire to check to see what the actual backspacing is before I bite the bullet on them.
http://www.ultrawheel.com/wheel/5773/252-allure/?finish=656&lugs=5

Here is a picture from the front.

Erik
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Nope, I have a 15 black Latitude. Wouldn't have minded a TH, but the dealers were not dealing on those and I couldn't pass up the deal that they gave me on the Latitude.

I am looking at the Ultra Platinum Allure 252 rims, just need to pull a stock tire to check to see what the actual backspacing is before I bite the bullet on them.
http://www.ultrawheel.com/wheel/5773/252-allure/?finish=656&lugs=5

Here is a picture from the front.

Erik
Erik, Sorry if I missed it but what size KO2's are you running?
 

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I'm thinking of getting these rims. Here are the specs.
17"x8"+35mm offset
5x110 bolt pattern
225/65/17
I will use with 17mm spacers.
Compared to the existing wheel, this new wheel will have an inner rim which is 14.1mm closer to the suspension strut. The outer rim will poke out 24.1mm more than before.
Looks like it should work.The tire position ends up close to the same shown on the chart taken from the calculator at willtheyfit.com
 

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Nope, I have a 15 black Latitude. Wouldn't have minded a TH, but the dealers were not dealing on those and I couldn't pass up the deal that they gave me on the Latitude.

I am looking at the Ultra Platinum Allure 252 rims, just need to pull a stock tire to check to see what the actual backspacing is before I bite the bullet on them.
http://www.ultrawheel.com/wheel/5773/252-allure/?finish=656&lugs=5

Here is a picture from the front.

Erik
Have you checked what the backspacing is? I am looking at getting the XD Heist 17x8 rims and I want to make urge they will fit. I seen them on 2 Renegades without spacers or lifts. One is running with KO2's.
 
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