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Hi,

Reviews from Europe test drives brought some negative points that I thought
are worth being listed as a reference.

Some might complain why negative points and not positive ones, well because we know what is positive in the model and for this reason we are on this forum but we need to have early heads ups as for what can make us think twice about the model...

I noticed these:

- Handling not so great
- Steering not that responsive
- Loud wind noise on highway
- Large A Pillars

Feel free to add all the negative points you find in reviews...
 

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What I find interesting are the comments such as "Handling not so great", "Steering not that responsive" -- but compared to what?

Sometimes I wonder if the reviewers testing these don't know the difference between Apples & Oranges, and expect a 4x4 capable car to handle like a Benz on the freeway.

Maybe i'm wrong, but does this even exist? er wait... maybe it does- G wagon for 115k?
 

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What I find interesting are the comments such as "Handling not so great", "Steering not that responsive" -- but compared to what?

Sometimes I wonder if the reviewers testing these don't know the difference between Apples & Oranges, and expect a 4x4 capable car to handle like a Benz on the freeway.

Maybe i'm wrong, but does this even exist? er wait... maybe it does- G wagon for 115k?
Well from the details of the handling/steering, it sounds like the number one complaint for handling is the steering, and the complaint is in line with the usual for electronic assist steering at that price point. Heck, we are just finaly seeing people call some electronic power assist steering good this year.... in cars that cost $80k+.

The a-pillars do look huge.
 

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^ good question.
I think what i'd value more is a review from someone who has a background of jeep's or at least knows what to expect from the brand and what a vehicle like this should be like.... which in the end could see positive feedback on how the renegade handles.
 

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^ good question.
I think what i'd value more is a review from someone who has a background of jeep's or at least knows what to expect from the brand and what a vehicle like this should be like.... which in the end could see positive feedback on how the renegade handles.
Here you go Tony:
The Wrangler tore through the track with enthusiastic ease and to my surprise so did the baby Renegade. The little guy is quite nimble , has good approach angels and a decent ground clearance. Has a nice high sitting position to asses the trail ahead. It fells sturdy and well built but you can tell it is quite a light car by Jeep standards and the 140 HP engine pushed it with ease over even the steepest inclines and deepest mud. This thing is quite fun to take offroad , prancing around like a happy gazelle compared to the heavy trusts of the rino like Wrangler. Kinda reminiscent to the old Suzuki Samurai / Jimny.
http://www.alfaowner.com/Forum/gene...e-new-jeep-renegade-on-a-motocross-track.html
 
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I have become a fan of electric steering. But my experience is with VW, Hyundai, Mazda, and Acura, which are all fine for me (fun, even). This video echoes what is being summarized here.

http://youtu.be/pk8xKj5artM

When I sat in the BU back in April, I didn't pay attention to the A pillars, nor the visibility out the back. A test drive will quickly judge those. The next priority will be front passenger seat height, as my wife has long legs. She has noticed that Subaru seats are too low, as are, possibly, the KL. That's going to be a big test.
 

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Its a question of perspective. What is the auto reviewers perspective compared to ours? their 'needs' are considerably more fleeting than ours are, their needs are story, ours are transportation.

Simple formula reviewer observes A,B,C,D,F,G etc. and rates them on their already existing bias/expectations of each segment. Those are then passed onto us as fact.

Toss in manufacturer support for the publication and you get the perfect mixture of mis information.

You put the average consumer in a hydraulic assisted system and tell them its electric and they will believe. Joe Sixxer has no clue what the difference between hydraulic and electric is. Oh sure he knows the words are different, but the knowledge is only definition deep...

I'm reserving judgement for when I have one in my hands.
 

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Well from the details of the handling/steering, it sounds like the number one complaint for handling is the steering, and the complaint is in line with the usual for electronic assist steering at that price point. Heck, we are just finaly seeing people call some electronic power assist steering good this year.... in cars that cost $80k+.

The a-pillars do look huge.
I've had a 2011 F-150 and currently have a 2012 Focus both with Electric steering.. While both had a completely different steering feel , naturally, they both felt great. I know it can be done in cheaper vehicles too.
 

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I've had a 2011 F-150 and currently have a 2012 Focus both with Electric steering.. While both had a completely different steering feel , naturally, they both felt great. I know it can be done in cheaper vehicles too.
That's one of the things i like about electric, it gives car makers the ability to adjust it for a specific feel, from cheap commuter cars to full on high performance F1-like hypercars/supercars.
 

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I've had a 2011 F-150 and currently have a 2012 Focus both with Electric steering.. While both had a completely different steering feel , naturally, they both felt great. I know it can be done in cheaper vehicles too.
I'm referring to the world of professional auto reviewers, where the baseline for judgment seems to be a reasonably quality hydraulic system with sporty handling. In the higher end segment we are finally hearing that crowd say that new offerings are surpassing previously well liked hydraulic offerings from the same manufacturers.

I dunno if I'm as picky as they are, but I've tried a number of cars with electric. Of those mentioned, I've experienced a hyundai system (elantra, 2012 IIRC) and a 2013 ford focus. IMO they aren't very good, and the hyundai system was worse. Both exhibited pretty poor road feedback, and variable input lag. The hyundai was worse because the input lag wasn't predictably variable. That being said, you can have hydraulic steering that is very insular too. What it tends to not be is slightly random in it's behavior.
 

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I'm referring to the world of professional auto reviewers, where the baseline for judgment seems to be a reasonably quality hydraulic system with sporty handling. In the higher end segment we are finally hearing that crowd say that new offerings are surpassing previously well liked hydraulic offerings from the same manufacturers.

I dunno if I'm as picky as they are, but I've tried a number of cars with electric. Of those mentioned, I've experienced a hyundai system (elantra, 2012 IIRC) and a 2013 ford focus. IMO they aren't very good, and the hyundai system was worse. Both exhibited pretty poor road feedback, and variable input lag. The hyundai was worse because the input lag wasn't predictably variable. That being said, you can have hydraulic steering that is very insular too. What it tends to not be is slightly random in it's behavior.
Well, I understand what you are saying but there are more than a few highly praised EPAS in cars well below 80k. Five years ago, I would say you are right. You are right in that there are some that aren't up to par however.. It's feasible to build this in a cheap car.. so Jeep should be able to do it too..One example is from an editor of Car and Driver-- a $22,195 Fiesta ST-"The rack-and-pinion steering is quicker than that of the standard Fiesta, and unlike so many of the new electric power assist systems this one gives the driver a sense of tactile feedback. This surgically precise setup would be right at home in a sports car."
 

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To me, sorry, it's a non sense evaluation.

The electric steer wheel exists, here in Europe, formo almost 20 years. Initially it was developed for small city cars. Fiat and Renault, on Panda and Twingo respectively, were the first brands to introduce it.

Then, they install it on bigger cars. It has more pros than cons: compact, easier, lighter and cheaper construction but, most important advantage, electronic controlled. It means that take control of the oil pressure can also change the steering feeling as well as its behaviour.
In other words, updating the steering cpu box can change complete its feeling, it's just a software, as well as Ford is doing on their cars from few days.
 

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To me, sorry, it's a non sense evaluation.

The electric steer wheel exists, here in Europe, formo almost 20 years. Initially it was developed for small city cars. Fiat and Renault, on Panda and Twingo respectively, were the first brands to introduce it.

Then, they install it on bigger cars. It has more pros than cons: compact, easier, lighter and cheaper construction but, most important advantage, electronic controlled. It means that take control of the oil pressure can also change the steering feeling as well as its behaviour.
In other words, updating the steering cpu box can change complete its feeling, it's just a software, as well as Ford is doing on their cars from few days.
Obviously English isn't your first language, so bear with me on interpreting this. Electronic power steering can have the software updated, true. However, how one chooses to implement it can't, and there are multiple ways of implementing it with certain advantages and disadvantages. Some provide more lag, and some provide less lag, between steering input and wheel response. Then there's the big differentiator, which is how they handle road feedback. That's almost entirely software, but it can be done well, or it can be done poorly.

As for hydraulic, it has lag too, but it's pretty constant. It has it's own oil supply and except for leaks, or wearing out the fluid by overheating it, it should remain fairly constant. Feedback, is also fairly constant.

Also, not all EPS units are smaller than hydraulic. In the BMW 5 series, the EPS was available only on the four cylinder model because it didn't fit with the bigger engines. Moving the parasitic load from the steering pump to the alternator doesn't result in huge efficiencies either.

Also, the first EPS was in a suzuki in 1988, so it's been around a lot longer than 20 years. The NSX had it too 23 years ago.

Part of the problem with judging EPS as a whole is very often you are comparing different cars to make your judgment. For example, my experience with the hyundai elantra was ok for boring traffic, but in bad weather was awful. Just because it was like the with EPS is no guarantee that hyundai wouldn't have made an equally poor system with hydraulics.

There's no reason EPS can't be good, it's jsut that it is only recently, especially in US market cars, that they seem to be making an effort with it to do so, rather than slapping it on as an afterthought to get a couple more MPG out of the car.
 

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Yes you're right! English is not my primary language, sorry...:crying:

I've also written all without reading twice, I'm sorry for the errors...

Anyway, you catch the point. I understand your view, but there's a big difference between EPS and HPS: the first works completely independently from the engine, the second one must be mechanically connected to the engine to work.

So there's a big advantage with the EPS. For instance, in the small my wife's Fiat Panda there's a steer function, named "city":the electrical pump push the steering oil pressure higher so the steering wheel becomes very very light. The "city" is disabled when the speed increases to 30kmh and more. Its purpose is to make the parking easier.

The hydraulic system runs with the engine: low rpm, few power, higer rpm, enough power, even over power...
So, I see more vantages than disvantages.
 

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Is your glass half full or half empty?

Everything in life has pros and cons, compiling a list of the negatives of the Renegade, from reviewers of the Renegade who all have their biases does not really seem like credible consideration.

Look at the title of this thread " Let's compile negative points in Renegade reviews", can you honestly consider that anyone new stumbling upon this forum will understand what the positives are? I doubt it.

So, I've started a new thread to try to consider to positives along with the negatives:

http://www.jeeprenegadeforum.com/fo...9-pros-cons-2015-jeep-renegade.html#post49065
 
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Is your glass half full or half empty?

Everything in life has pros and cons, compiling a list of the negatives of the Renegade, from reviewers of the Renegade who all have their biases does not really seem like credible consideration.

Look at the title of this thread " Let's compile negative points in Renegade reviews", can you honestly consider that anyone new stumbling upon this forum will understand what the positives are? I doubt it.

So, I've started a new thread to try to consider to positives along with the negatives:

http://www.jeeprenegadeforum.com/fo...9-pros-cons-2015-jeep-renegade.html#post49065
Great thread idea and you do make some good points about addressing the negative points about the Renegade.

I do think it's best to look at the positives first: what does it do best at? in what ways is it better than the competition? along with many more...then look at the downsides to it. Then look at the negatives.
 

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Hi, European fellow here.
I am ordering a 2015 Renegade and got the chance to test one of the first.

I have to disagree with the poor handling: the one I drove was equipped with 18" 255/55 tyres and the steering sensitivity is excellent for a car like that. I used to own a 2007 Mini (my benchmark for handling) and I currently drive a 2013 VW Golf, and the latter is way worse than the Renegade I tried in terms of steering response.

I found the steering stiff, quick and responsive enough to convince me.

I have to agree though about the huge aerodynamic noises when driving at highway speed: makes you feel the engine is really struggling to push the car forward.
 
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