[gselsidi]

Hi Guys looking at AVID lifts. One is 1.5" and one is 2".

I see real world they even out about 1.5" since the 2" drops everything.

Also, any of these above lifts plus 1.75" coil lift, to give you about a 4" lift, how would going up to 4" effect CV, and general drive line angles? And reliability?

If you want to go to a 4" I guess it makes sense to get the 2" that drops everything? or would it not really help at all...?

Thanks

 

[Maverick365]

Personally, I'll be going the Avid 1.5" route when I do the lift. I prefer how simple it is (no dropped rear sub, and all the other changed angles on things because of it). It may put SLIGHTLY more angle on the CV's, but I'd rather deal with that then having all kinds of other changed things that weren't meant to be changed. And the extra .5 of the 2" lift is for show. It will not gain you any tire clearance over the 1.5, due to the wheel well shape.
So, as you said, the 2" doesn't gain you any total clearance over the 1.5 (since the 2.0 then drops the rear sub anyway), and it's WAY more complicated to install yet doesn't gain you any tire clearance.... all for the extra .5" of appearance. No thanks.
To each their own, but I think the Avid 1.5 is the best thing going.

 

[gselsidi]

@Maverick365

Yeah that's why I was leaning towards the 1.5", also does adding springs 1" - 2" make any of the driveline CV angles even worst? Would love to add the 1.75" Ebachi springs, and get up to a true 3'75" lift just wonder what it might due to components?

 

[Maverick365]

@Maverick365

Yeah that's why I was leaning towards the 1.5", also does adding springs 1" - 2" make any of the driveline CV angles even worst? Would love to add the 1.75" Ebachi springs, and get up to a true 3'75" lift just wonder what it might due to components?

As a general rule: (for independent suspensions) More lift = more problems/wear. It's just the way it is. The CV's weren't designed to operate at those angles for any length of time (they were designed to operate at the normal static height of your vehicle). So adding to that makes more wear/tear. Add to that the Renegade does not even have a double bone suspension (it is a lower control arm + strut upper). At least a double bone handles the work while the shock just does the absorbing. The Renegade has a car suspension that utilizes the common lower bone and uses the shock/spring (itself) as the upper mount. That's car stuff. It's not meant for any heavy duty or serious work.
I sometimes have to chuckle, because people get sucked into the "well it's a JEEP!" thing. No, this is a CAR. Not a Truck, not an SUV.. it's a CAR. Period.
This suspension is not designed for massive lift, heavy (or large) tires and doing so will probably not end well for it.
I'm sticking with my OWN opinion in that 1.5" lift + 1 size up (225/65r17 MAX) is all I'd go on this platform.
I'm sure many Renegade Facebookers and "extreme edge" guys would differ.. but hey.. if they want to push their car to the max, all the more power to them. However, it is NOT (not even anywhere close) designed to handle that, and for most people... it won't.

 

[gselsidi]

As a general rule: (for independent suspensions) More lift = more problems/wear. It's just the way it is. The CV's weren't designed to operate at those angles for any length of time (they were designed to operate at the normal static height of your vehicle). So adding to that makes more wear/tear. Add to that the Renegade does not even have a double bone suspension (it is a lower control arm + strut upper). At least a double bone handles the work while the shock just does the absorbing. The Renegade has a car suspension that utilizes the common lower bone and uses the shock/spring (itself) as the upper mount. That's car stuff. It's not meant for any heavy duty or serious work.
I sometimes have to chuckle, because people get sucked into the "well it's a JEEP!" thing. No, this is a CAR. Not a Truck, not an SUV.. it's a CAR. Period.
This suspension is not designed for massive lift, heavy (or large) tires and doing so will probably not end well for it.
I'm sticking with my OWN opinion in that 1.5" lift + 1 size up (225/65r17 MAX) is all I'd go on this platform.
I'm sure many Renegade Facebookers and "extreme edge" guys would differ.. but hey.. if they want to push their car to the max, all the more power to them. However, it is NOT (not even anywhere close) designed to handle that, and for most people... it won't.

I called two shops one told me yeah sure 4" is fine lol, the other said max 1.5-2" think I'll go with the 1.5" and larger tires and call it a day.

 

[gselsidi]

Anybody know if it's ok to just Run the 2" Springs from ATP or another manufacturer without installing a spacer lift? I know even AVIDs 1.5" lift provides some rear brackets to align some stuff?


Or maybe you can add these springs and just get the brackets from them?

 

[Maverick365]

I'm not sure. I know ATP sells their 2" springs separate if needed, but they also state "MUST be used in conjunction with their 2" spacer lift kit". However, Eibach sells lift springs for the Renegade (1.7/non TH, 1" for TH) as a stand alone item.
I'm guessing they really don't want you to go more than an inch or so from stock without a relocation bracket.

 

[gselsidi]

I'm not sure. I know ATP sells their 2" springs separate if needed, but they also state "MUST be used in conjunction with their 2" spacer lift kit". However, Eibach sells lift springs for the Renegade (1.7/non TH, 1" for TH) as a stand alone item.
I'm guessing they really don't want you to go more than an inch or so from stock without a relocation bracket.

I spoke to madness autoworks the other day, and their head sales guy told me it's fine to run them, but he cautioned me that I might not get any lift out of it depending on my trim and engine model.

I told him I have a Sport 2.4 Engine, and he said the weight of the engine might cause you to not get much out of the springs. I'm ordering the AVID 1.5" lift waiting for an invoice.

 

[Maverick365]

I spoke to madness autoworks the other day, and their head sales guy told me it's fine to run them, but he cautioned me that I might not get any lift out of it depending on my trim and engine model.

I told him I have a Sport 2.4 Engine, and he said the weight of the engine might cause you to not get much out of the springs. I'm ordering the AVID 1.5" lift waiting for an invoice.

Well, for lifts, I think you chose the best one out there! Nice and simple, no subframe drop spacers (which also means no having to drop the center coupler or exhaust system... both of which were NOT meant to be moved) and VERY high quality parts (there was a comparison between Avid, Daystar and Teraflex and the AVID looks like custom high end parts compared to the others). Your combo is the exact combo I'll be going with (Avid 1.5, 225/65r17's). I think that's the sweet spot with the Renegade (just a bit more aggressive without causing undue stress to the rest of the components)!
Well done! Please do a follow up on the install, wheel alignment, and performance when you do it (or have it done)!

 

[Shots]

I went with the Daystar kit on my wife's Renegade. I bought it BECAUSE it had the rear sub and carrier bearing relocation brackets. Avid's kit seemed nice, but it left the drive line untouched. Companies like Daystar, which are well established, aren't going to add unnecessary parts which would cut into their profits. However companies will certainly leave parts out if they can to increase profit or reduce sale costs. I'm not saying that's what Avid is doing, but when I asked them if they had done something with their kit to negate the need for relocating parts, they never responded. Hmmm, that's a little odd.

I'm not saying that a more expensive product is always better. However when a company that has been around since 1977 has more parts included than the company that's been around since August of 2016, I'm going to trust the one that's been around longer a bit more than the new guy. Especially when the one that's leaving out parts doesn't tell me WHY they're leaving out parts, or how they were able to eliminate the need for them. It seems too convenient that they're skipping "minor" parts and related installation steps to keep the cost down, and make the install seem easier, so they can complete. Maybe not, I don't know, and they never replied to help me understand. Avid may make great products, but they've only been around 2 years (1.5 when I bought the kit), so their products haven't been around long enough to see if they hold up, or if they have any long term affects on the vehicle. Without having a history to back Avid it's hard to assume that Daystar increased cost for no reason. I've got to assume their engineers added the spacer to the carrier barring, exhaust hangers and rear subframe for a reason. If any of you are wondering, installing those "extra" parts wasn't an issue either.

I'm not trying to bash Avid, they seem like nice kits. For me though, I didn't need extra ground clearance, so if lowering the rear sub back to the same ground clearance saves my drive line undue wear, I'm all for it. I bought the lift for looks, if I'm doing any serious off-roading I'll take my Wrangler. Maybe I'll be proven to have been skeptical of the Avid kit wrong after folks have used them for a few years. Till then, my wife's Renegade isn't going to be the guinea pig.


Also to note my references. I got the dates the companies were founded from the BBB.
And here's a shot of my wife's Renegade Limited (with Daystar lift), with my stock Wrangler Sahara. I've been looking at rims/tires for her. I think we'll end up with some rims from a Compass Trailhawk, wrapped in 255/65/17 tires. I didn't want to get rid of the 18's, but you pretty much can't find an AT or MT tire in that size.

 

[Shots]

Oh and I forgot to answer the OP. I wouldn't "stack" kits. The alignment has very minimal adjustments (nearly none), so even with a 1.5" kit they weren't able to get it 100% back to spec. If you add more to it, the alignment would be so out of wack you'd kill tires. Plus I think your CV angles would probably be way too steep.

 

[Shots]

Okay I guess I can't edit a post after 10 minutes.
The tire size I'm looking at is 225/65/17, not 255. Oops.

 

[txjeeper35]

I have the Daystar lift. I got mine before the Teraflex was out, but had been announced. I have had issues with my TH and the alignment - and I sell tires/service for a living. So lucky me, I replace tires before they wear out in March Ill be on my 5th set of tires because I can


I have TONS of contacts that run AVID with no issue. Plenty of them run Eibach coils on top, with no issues. I have a few friends who run Daystar or Teraflex with Eibach's on top, with no issues. I will be in that boat hopefully by the beginning of next year.


Of those friends that do run this setup, many wheel harder/more often than myself. And I don't take it easy. I know they do not, and many of them have been to Moab with us in March. Some just got back from Moab, and a CO adventure as well.


No issues that I've heard about, other than trimming the front lower strut for CV clearance from rubbing while flexing. Join our FB group Jeep Renegade Life, you'll get a ton of info from friends of mine!! And maybe learn something new!

 

[Maverick365]

I feel I need to clarify something for some people. Eibach springs come in two flavors (1.4/1.6 and 2.4l). For each engine, they are the same set (TH or non.. doesn't matter). TH's will gain 1", and non TH's will gain 1.7" (because their springs are already .7" lower than TH to begin with). There is no 1.7" Eibach springs for TH's. A non TH with Eibach springs will be the same height as a TH with Eibach springs. Just throwing that out there

 

[denoboy]

I have the 1.5 Daystar lift with 225/65R17 tires. Also have wheel spacers 1.25". Love it and would not dare go larger tires or bigger lift. Even with this I do have some rubbing on the front passenger side when turning to the right, I wanted to ask if with this set up I could consider adding a level kit in the front ? I am thinking this would not only level the factory nose dive but would get rid of the rubbing. Do you recommend I could do this without getting into later suspension trouble ?????

 

[Maverick365]

I have the 1.5 Daystar lift with 225/65R17 tires. Also have wheel spacers 1.25". Love it and would not dare go larger tires or bigger lift. Even with this I do have some rubbing on the front passenger side when turning to the right, I wanted to ask if with this set up I could consider adding a level kit in the front ? I am thinking this would not only level the factory nose dive but would get rid of the rubbing. Do you recommend I could do this without getting into later suspension trouble ?????

Valkyrie sells a 1/2" front leveling spacer, but I would not go that route on top of another spacer kit. I think it would be fine on it's own, but not stacked on top of your Daystar lift.
Your lift has PLENTY of room for those tires (that size fits with no lift). Your issue is the wheel spacers. 1.25" spacers is HUGE. The rubbing you're experiencing is because of the wider arc your tire makes now when it turns (due to the spacers). I know you probably like the "wide stance" look with the spacers, but you're creating more issues with them. Instead of pivoting, your tires now have to move front/back when they turn, as well.
If I were you, I'd just get rid of the spacers and the rest of your set up would be golden. Or if you must, at least step down to 30mm (or 7/8 to 1") spacers (you'll still have the issue, but barely).
The Jeep Renegade wheel wells do not play nice with larger tires (both because of wheel well shape, and because of the spring perches). Spacers solve the "perch" problem, but then amplify the wheel well "shape" problem. That's why you'll see many either going 225/65r17 with NO mods, or simply adding a minor lift (1-1.5"). Those that add wheel spacers seem to mostly go no more than 1" (and even those will cause minor rubbing).
Hope this helps.

 

[denoboy]

Thanks for the response, I knew adding a level kit on top of the spacer kit is not the way to go. And yes !! I do love the wide stance, rubbing is not that much, I actually almost avoid it by not completely turning the wheels to the Max, so for the time being I'll leave the spacers on.

Great response / Thanks much

BAJA1000 Score race this weekend South of the Border, here we come.

 

[JimJustJim]

I went with the Daystar kit on my wife's Renegade. I bought it BECAUSE it had the rear sub and carrier bearing relocation brackets. Avid's kit seemed nice, but it left the drive line untouched. Companies like Daystar, which are well established, aren't going to add unnecessary parts which would cut into their profits. However companies will certainly leave parts out if they can to increase profit or reduce sale costs. I'm not saying that's what Avid is doing, but when I asked them if they had done something with their kit to negate the need for relocating parts, they never responded. Hmmm, that's a little odd.

I'm not saying that a more expensive product is always better. However when a company that has been around since 1977 has more parts included than the company that's been around since August of 2016, I'm going to trust the one that's been around longer a bit more than the new guy. Especially when the one that's leaving out parts doesn't tell me WHY they're leaving out parts, or how they were able to eliminate the need for them. It seems too convenient that they're skipping "minor" parts and related installation steps to keep the cost down, and make the install seem easier, so they can complete. Maybe not, I don't know, and they never replied to help me understand. Avid may make great products, but they've only been around 2 years (1.5 when I bought the kit), so their products haven't been around long enough to see if they hold up, or if they have any long term affects on the vehicle. Without having a history to back Avid it's hard to assume that Daystar increased cost for no reason. I've got to assume their engineers added the spacer to the carrier barring, exhaust hangers and rear subframe for a reason. If any of you are wondering, installing those "extra" parts wasn't an issue either.

I'm not trying to bash Avid, they seem like nice kits. For me though, I didn't need extra ground clearance, so if lowering the rear sub back to the same ground clearance saves my drive line undue wear, I'm all for it. I bought the lift for looks, if I'm doing any serious off-roading I'll take my Wrangler. Maybe I'll be proven to have been skeptical of the Avid kit wrong after folks have used them for a few years. Till then, my wife's Renegade isn't going to be the guinea pig.


Also to note my references. I got the dates the companies were founded from the BBB.
And here's a shot of my wife's Renegade Limited (with Daystar lift), with my stock Wrangler Sahara. I've been looking at rims/tires for her. I think we'll end up with some rims from a Compass Trailhawk, wrapped in 255/65/17 tires. I didn't want to get rid of the 18's, but you pretty much can't find an AT or MT tire in that size.

Hey Shots, I hate to revive an old thread but I just ordered the RRO 1.5" lift for my fiance's 2018 TH. It's only got 4k miles on the stock tires, and I'm considering running with them until I get the mods paid off. In this picture, am I to understand you are still running on the stock tire? If so, that doesn't look bad at all.