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I went down to my local Dodge/Jeep dealer here last week to get the oil changed in my Fiat Abarth. While I was waiting I went out and perused the new cars and they had a Cherokee there and I was looking at it for a bit and discussing it with a couple of salesmen and the manager. I told them I could not get past the stupid (not said that harshly of course) face on the Cherokee and I was waiting to see the Renegade.

That got us off and running on how the Renegade sucked, it was going to be tiny as it was based on Fiat "stuff" and was going to be small like "those tiny little cars". They did not know I drove one of those in apparently. I said it was going to be a nice replacement for the Liberty, they said oh no, much too small. I said it was going to be a hot seller, they said they doubted it.

I left them for a bit and grabbed the Cherokee and Wrangler books off the wall and then pulled the info and measurements of the Renegade off the net on the phone. Then I went and showed them the measurement differences and they were shocked, they literally had no idea. I had much fun showing them that what they were dismissing as tiny was not, basically everything they thought was incorrect about the vehicle. Now, I know they have not beet trained yet, but seriously, maybe they should know a LITTLE bit about what they are selling. I'd never purchase from them needless to say, but the lack of knowledge just a few months out is astounding.

I tried to find comparison photos of the renegade beside the Cherokee as I thought I'd seen some on here but I could not find photos of size anywhere to show them.
 

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I went down to my local Dodge/Jeep dealer here last week to get the oil changed in my Fiat Abarth. While I was waiting I went out and perused the new cars and they had a Cherokee there and I was looking at it for a bit and discussing it with a couple of salesmen and the manager. I told them I could not get past the stupid (not said that harshly of course) face on the Cherokee and I was waiting to see the Renegade.

That got us off and running on how the Renegade sucked, it was going to be tiny as it was based on Fiat "stuff" and was going to be small like "those tiny little cars". They did not know I drove one of those in apparently. I said it was going to be a nice replacement for the Liberty, they said oh no, much too small. I said it was going to be a hot seller, they said they doubted it.

I left them for a bit and grabbed the Cherokee and Wrangler books off the wall and then pulled the info and measurements of the Renegade off the net on the phone. Then I went and showed them the measurement differences and they were shocked, they literally had no idea. I had much fun showing them that what they were dismissing as tiny was not, basically everything they thought was incorrect about the vehicle. Now, I know they have not beet trained yet, but seriously, maybe they should know a LITTLE bit about what they are selling. I'd never purchase from them needless to say, but the lack of knowledge just a few months out is astounding.

I tried to find comparison photos of the renegade beside the Cherokee as I thought I'd seen some on here but I could not find photos of size anywhere to show them.
I do wonder if thats an attitude pervasive with Jeep salesmen however...
 

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I went down to my local Dodge/Jeep dealer here last week to get the oil changed in my Fiat Abarth. While I was waiting I went out and perused the new cars and they had a Cherokee there and I was looking at it for a bit and discussing it with a couple of salesmen and the manager. I told them I could not get past the stupid (not said that harshly of course) face on the Cherokee and I was waiting to see the Renegade.

That got us off and running on how the Renegade sucked, it was going to be tiny as it was based on Fiat "stuff" and was going to be small like "those tiny little cars". They did not know I drove one of those in apparently. I said it was going to be a nice replacement for the Liberty, they said oh no, much too small. I said it was going to be a hot seller, they said they doubted it.

I left them for a bit and grabbed the Cherokee and Wrangler books off the wall and then pulled the info and measurements of the Renegade off the net on the phone. Then I went and showed them the measurement differences and they were shocked, they literally had no idea. I had much fun showing them that what they were dismissing as tiny was not, basically everything they thought was incorrect about the vehicle. Now, I know they have not beet trained yet, but seriously, maybe they should know a LITTLE bit about what they are selling. I'd never purchase from them needless to say, but the lack of knowledge just a few months out is astounding.

I tried to find comparison photos of the renegade beside the Cherokee as I thought I'd seen some on here but I could not find photos of size anywhere to show them.
I have not found a salesperson at any dealer over the passed 40 years that can easily answer questions on a car sitting right in the showroom. Their product knowledge sucks, every thing I ask they have to check the book.
 

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...

I tried to find comparison photos of the renegade beside the Cherokee as I thought I'd seen some on here but I could not find photos of size anywhere to show them.
So once again the two Montages i did ...

First the classic Cherokee:



Then the new one:
 

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Same here. Have been to the only Jeep dealer in Manhattan and I asked for an update on the renegade if they had any, and the sales rep and manager argued you with me about a dodge srt.........absolutely no idea what it was and once shown what it was stated its only being launched in the European market........so either jeep isn't training or we the consumer really are being lead down an empty road
 

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I have called many dealerships in the San Antonio area and I have gotten little information regarding the release date or specs. I did go into a Jeep dealership yesterday where the salesperson suggested that the inside of a Renegade would feel more like a Grand Cherokee rather than a Compass (feels quite tight even for a myself at 5'2). He had no information in regards to colors of the vehicles although they are listed on the jeep website. He also suggested that they will be arriving on the lot around March and will probably only receive 2 to 3. Not exactly what I want to hear as I am sure plenty of people in the San Antonio area will probably flock the dealership to take a look.
 

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... I am sure plenty of people in the San Antonio area will probably flock the dealership to take a look.
Those Renegades are built to be sold not to be taken a look at ...:x

But they are not built for the usual Jeep mechanic who is used to fix anything with a Sledgehammer ... ;):D>:D
 

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No surprise about the lack of knowledge from salesmen. This is just a job for them. My wife hates it when I get a lock on for a vehicle because when we do go to look at them I always make the salesmen look- to put it lightly- stupid. It's not intentional, but when they come up and start their know nothing sales pitch and start hyper- inflating the vehicle or spout off false performance numbers I am forced to correct them.

When I was waiting for the Abarth, the salesman tried to tell me that I could by a Sport and throw a turbo in it for $400 and it would be just as good if not better than the Abarth. Then when I asked him about how can that be with the different suspension, computer programming, steering ratio and so on he had this blank look. I told them right there he just lost the sale. The worst nightmare for a salesman is an educated buyer.

Two rules I live by when buying a car. You B.S. me your done and I will not pay mark up.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Thanks for the mockup Maneater, that is very helpful! I know I saw photos somewhere of the Renegade and the Cherokee sort of side by side sitting in the grass at some event but I cannot find those shots anywhere now that I'm looking again. Maybe the auto show coming up will give some more info and shots.


I too make salesmen look dumb when I shop. It is amazing what they don't know. I honestly do not expect them to know everything, but they should know the basics as they only have so many new vehicles to sell in their given brand. I was told not long ago that the Honda Accord was not available in a manual. I showed them the book on the floor where it was. I was told at another dealer they had a blue manual Accord out back they'd bring up front. I said, no, there is no such thing as they only come in grey or black with a manual. I was correct, proven after he went out back to get it to show me and then came back empty handed lol.

I'm a car guy I know, I like cars and know a lot about them in general. Still what I know usually is the basics when I'm starting out. Nothing more than a couple hours of reviews, manufacters websites, and most hepfull of all the forum. That is still miles more than they know it seems. I guess most consumers see shiny and purchase? That's not me, and if you don't know just say so and I'll not worry about it. Blow smoke at me then I move on.

I cannot afford cars at higher end dealerships but I have shopped at places like Range Rover, Jaguar and the like and those salesmen and women know their cars, I was really impressed. The Fiat dealer I purchased from knew their stuff, but two others I went to did not at all. So refreshing to find people that seem to care about the cars they sell, they know more, are enthusiastic, and are more relaxed as they are confidant in their knowledge. makes for a more relaxed purchasing experience.

Not found a good Jeep dealer yet actually, though surely there are some in existence. Also, Dodge and Jeep dealers need to quit putting down Fiat, they don't suck too bad as they now own you! Your vehicles ARE Fiat vehicles now so stop bashing them!
 

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The worst nightmare for a salesman is an educated buyer.
The simple rule of thumb, All car sales people are liars!

oh, can't say that?

All car sales people are Half Truthers - Masters of Deception, until they meet an educated buyer!
 
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Thanks for the mockup Maneater, that is very helpful! I know I saw photos somewhere of the Renegade and the Cherokee sort of side by side sitting in the grass at some event but I cannot find those shots anywhere now that I'm looking again. Maybe the auto show coming up will give some more info and shots.


I too make salesmen look dumb when I shop. It is amazing what they don't know. I honestly do not expect them to know everything, but they should know the basics as they only have so many new vehicles to sell in their given brand. I was told not long ago that the Honda Accord was not available in a manual. I showed them the book on the floor where it was. I was told at another dealer they had a blue manual Accord out back they'd bring up front. I said, no, there is no such thing as they only come in grey or black with a manual. I was correct, proven after he went out back to get it to show me and then came back empty handed lol.

I'm a car guy I know, I like cars and know a lot about them in general. Still what I know usually is the basics when I'm starting out. Nothing more than a couple hours of reviews, manufacters websites, and most hepfull of all the forum. That is still miles more than they know it seems. I guess most consumers see shiny and purchase? That's not me, and if you don't know just say so and I'll not worry about it. Blow smoke at me then I move on.

I cannot afford cars at higher end dealerships but I have shopped at places like Range Rover, Jaguar and the like and those salesmen and women know their cars, I was really impressed. The Fiat dealer I purchased from knew their stuff, but two others I went to did not at all. So refreshing to find people that seem to care about the cars they sell, they know more, are enthusiastic, and are more relaxed as they are confidant in their knowledge. makes for a more relaxed purchasing experience.

Not found a good Jeep dealer yet actually, though surely there are some in existence. Also, Dodge and Jeep dealers need to quit putting down Fiat, they don't suck too bad as they now own you! Your vehicles ARE Fiat vehicles now so stop bashing them!
I always crack up when A dodge owner and especially a Wrangler owner, starts thrashing Fiat and the Renegade. It seems Wrangler owners are the worst at it. I just remind them if it wasn't for Fiat there would be no more Jeep. And unlike Mercedes, who came in raped and pillaged Chrysler/ Dodge/ Jeep, Fiat has a genuine interest in Jeep to improve it and to make it expand and enlarge in a global market and to increase its foot print in the world. Doing this will ensure Jeeps financial well being and security. I also remind them that the Renegade is needed to offset the carbon footprint Jeep has due to CAFE standards getting stricter like BMW needed MINI (Who is also treated like a ******* child in the BMW community). Then to twist the knife a little more, I tell them the technology that is seen in the "McRenegade" (as I was told it was called among "real" jeep owners) such as the 9 speed transmission, aluminum panels, automatic drive train reconfigurations and so on will be in the next generation Wrangler and they should be grateful that Fiat/ Renegade saved Jeeps a**......
 

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The real Wrangler Guy is an Old Fart who thinks the real Wranglers ended with the CJ more than 20 Years ago ... they don´t buy younger models and don´t have any idea that driving old trash metal was the reason for that drove Chrysler Jeep to companies like Mercedes and Fiat.

They complain about Fiat and don´t realize that every Company building Cars have to sell them to exist ... and the reason is that those Morons just don´t get used to Things they can´t fix with a Sledgehammer ...
 

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I always crack up when A dodge owner and especially a Wrangler owner, starts thrashing Fiat and the Renegade. It seems Wrangler owners are the worst at it. I just remind them if it wasn't for Fiat there would be no more Jeep. And unlike Mercedes, who came in raped and pillaged Chrysler/ Dodge/ Jeep, Fiat has a genuine interest in Jeep to improve it and to make it expand and enlarge in a global market and to increase its foot print in the world. Doing this will ensure Jeeps financial well being and security. I also remind them that the Renegade is needed to offset the carbon footprint Jeep has due to CAFE standards getting stricter like BMW needed MINI (Who is also treated like a ******* child in the BMW community). Then to twist the knife a little more, I tell them the technology that is seen in the "McRenegade" (as I was told it was called among "real" jeep owners) such as the 9 speed transmission, aluminum panels, automatic drive train reconfigurations and so on will be in the next generation Wrangler and they should be grateful that Fiat/ Renegade saved Jeeps a**......
You and I agree on a lot of things. But I'm going to have to call you out on some of this, respectfully. :) First of all, Jeep is Chrysler's most profitable brand. If Chrysler had died, somebody else would have picked up Jeep. Fiat has NOTHING to do with Jeep's livelihood or success. And in fact, Fiat IS killing the Jeep brand slowly but surely. For the first time ever we're seeing ALL Jeeps in the lineup being watered down like cars. Soon, there will be nothing to set Jeep apart from any other brand on the U.S. market and that will be a sad day.

Second, the technology you speak of has been a train wreck. The new Pentastar engines have had serious problems with heads, oil cooler, casting sand contamination, etc. The 8 and 9 speed transmissions have both had massive problems...to the point that Jeep shelved the release of the Cherokee for months to try and solve the problem and STILL had to issue patches and TSBs for the Cherokee and Grand Cherokee both. The Renegade is going to be problematic when it arrives...trust me. And this is NOT good news...because Fiat has always been a very low quality brand and in America it has the lowest reputation possible. So Fiat is HURTING Jeep, certainly not helping them.

Third, Wrangler owners as a whole are not pricks. It's just that the Wrangler is the only true Jeep left to buy. It's the vehicle that started it all. It's the vehicle that began the loyalty to Jeep. And now loyal Jeep purists are sitting back watching Marchionne introduce these Cracker Jack box "Jeeps" that are front wheel drive, tiny inside and out, have zero articulation, no ground clearance, and cannot even negotiate a snow storm and yet they are slapping Trail Rated badges on them and trying to pass them off as Jeeps and it's a sacrilege to these folks. You have to try and view things from their shoes. They aren't being punks...they just really care about what the brand stands for and CARS are not what the brand is supposed to stand for. There are 100 other brands that sell cars.

The draw to the Renegade is it's fuel efficiency. But official EPA numbers are not out yet. Time will tell if the Renegade can really post good numbers but I'm expecting a combined number of 25 with a highway number around 30 on the non TrailHawk models...and since I know from first hand experience the Wrangler averages 20 with low 20s on the highway in the real world this would be a nice little bump in fuel savings. That's the ONLY advantage the Renegade is going to have so they better not screw this up like everything else! Good luck Jeep!
 

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If Chrysler had died, somebody else would have picked up Jeep. Fiat has NOTHING to do with Jeep's livelihood or success. And in fact, Fiat IS killing the Jeep brand slowly but surely. For the first time ever we're seeing ALL Jeeps in the lineup being watered down like cars. Soon, there will be nothing to set Jeep apart from any other brand on the U.S. market and that will be a sad day.
And people said the same thing with Chrysler bought AMC/Jeep. When Mercedes bought Chrysler. When Cerberus Capital bought Chrysler.


The Renegade is going to be problematic when it arrives...trust me. And this is NOT good news...because Fiat has always been a very low quality brand and in America it has the lowest reputation possible.
Completely agree.


Third, Wrangler owners as a whole are not pricks. It's just that the Wrangler is the only true Jeep left to buy. It's the vehicle that started it all. It's the vehicle that began the loyalty to Jeep.
You obviously don't know Jeep history, the MB started it all, then the CJ. With the introduction of EVERY generation, the CJ/Wrangler folks cried wolf, "It's the end of Jeep", "Jeep is going to die", etc. This is a fifty plus year old broken record, try digital!
Learn more at these links:
http://www.jedi.com/obiwan/jeep/misc/models.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Jeep_vehicles


and cannot even negotiate a snow storm
Maneater disagrees, he has already negotiated snow storms and lives to tell about it.


They aren't being punks...they just really care about what the brand stands for and CARS are not what the brand is supposed to stand for. There are 100 other brands that sell cars.
Have you heard of CAFE standards? Look it up.


The draw to the Renegade is it's fuel efficiency. That's the ONLY advantage the Renegade is going to have so they better not screw this up like everything else!
ONLY, wrong! Daily driver, on road comfort, the Wrangler does not provide this. There are more but I don't want to bother you with details.


Good luck Jeep!
THEN WHY, OH WHY ARE YOU ON THIS FORUM?
WHY ARE YOU PERSONALLY CONSIDERING BUYING A RENEGADE?
 
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I do wonder if thats an attitude pervasive with Jeep salesmen however...
Dude.. they are car salesmen, there is seldom a question they won't make up an answer to, facts be damned.

For example, when I went to purchase my 97 elcipse GSX which was the turbo AWD version, the salesman felt obliged to point out in the test drive that if you pressed the button with the snowflake on it, you could feel the 4wd engage and get extra traction. My answer was that the button was the air conditioning button, and you need to stop talking now.

They are salesman.
 

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Jan 6th Release

"So Fiat is HURTING Jeep, certainly not helping them."
Considering the new Cherokee is the best selling model in their lineup that has a huge amount of Fiat underpinnings, I would have to disagree with this. Fiat's management is THE reason why Jeep sold a million vehicles last year. Picking the right parts suppliers, releasing the vehicle only once it's truly ready and revamping an already class leading model after only 3 years (2014 GC) are all reasons why Jeep sold more SUVs than any other brand last year.

Now as far as this Jan 6th release date goes. I'm not showing the next update to the dealership facing ordering system until January 9th. We've had no updates what so ever from corporate's end so my guess is we are not ordering these until at least 2/10/15. If I am wrong, I'll start a new thread on the main forum board to answer ordering questions and upload spec sheets.
 

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You and I agree on a lot of things. But I'm going to have to call you out on some of this, respectfully. :) First of all, Jeep is Chrysler's most profitable brand. If Chrysler had died, somebody else would have picked up Jeep. Fiat has NOTHING to do with Jeep's livelihood or success. And in fact, Fiat IS killing the Jeep brand slowly but surely. For the first time ever we're seeing ALL Jeeps in the lineup being watered down like cars. Soon, there will be nothing to set Jeep apart from any other brand on the U.S. market and that will be a sad day.
Who would have picked up Jeep? Thats an awful big assumption. How do you figure Fiat has nothing to do with Jeep livelihood or success? They bought and own Jeep lock stock and barrel. As it was pointed out already by Willierracinesjeep, Cherokee are moving as fast as they make them and with the Renegade being Europe's hottest compact SUV, how is that not a result of Fiat and how is it killing Jeeps revenue and worth? Jeep was not global at all on the scale it CURRENTLY is now.

As far as being water downed; Something you and the die hard Wrangler folks need to understand that anybody with common sense knows and car manufactures knows is that a company can not survive off of one model. Fiat is pouring billions into improving and expanding the Jeep product to appeal to more people GLOBALLY to increase its profits and to increase the brands worth and use. That means coming out with different models that might not be "Wrangler Worthy".

For crackers and cheese however, lets do it your way of only producing die hard jeeps such as the Wrangler. Lets start off with by 2025 due to CAFE standards, Jeep and the Wrangler would be dead if the competition didn't kill them off first. There is no way the current model of Wrangler will meet those standards, PERIOD. Then lets talk about modern comfort. Do you think the old CJ7 would actually be a hot seller today given whats on the market? Even today the Wrangler is not the best as far a comfort room and practicality. I know I have friends with Wrangler Unlimited's and I found after the L.A. Auto Show the Renegade is more comfortable, more easy to get in and out of, and had more leg room in the backseat than the Wrangler. Sitting up front I found it the same way.

Second, the technology you speak of has been a train wreck. The new Pentastar engines have had serious problems with heads, oil cooler, casting sand contamination, etc. The 8 and 9 speed transmissions have both had massive problems...to the point that Jeep shelved the release of the Cherokee for months to try and solve the problem and STILL had to issue patches and TSBs for the Cherokee and Grand Cherokee both. The Renegade is going to be problematic when it arrives...trust me. And this is NOT good news...because Fiat has always been a very low quality brand and in America it has the lowest reputation possible. So Fiat is HURTING Jeep, certainly not helping them.
ALL, I REPEAT ALL, new technology and car models have issues. It doesn't matter WHO makes it. Look at Toyota- they are still doing Recalls on the Prius Gen 1. Chevy has had more recalls for their ignition switch than cars they produced. Tesla had a recall for its battery because it would catch on fire after the car ran over something solid. ****, even my wifes 2002 Honda Civic had a recall with the airbag six months ago. Tell me a car maker on the face of this earth that DOESN'T have a recall or TSB? Please don't tell me either that Jeep has an outstanding reputation for reliability and quality either when they got most worst to buy used from Forbes and Consumer Reports.

As far as Fiat reliability and rep, couldn't agree more. I own a Fiat 500 Abarth. For the first 25K miles it was the biggest POS I have ever owned. However, I am now at at 45K miles and have not had a lick of trouble except the POS audio and voice connect and the right rear tire being out of alignment that can't be fixed. I think though half the issues I had were dealer induced because I caught them sabotaging my car and since I switched dealers it has been problem free.... This is also Fiats first Gen car so it is going to have issues and the same will go for the Renegade. You bet the Renegade is going to have issues. That is why I am going to wait at least two years after they become released in the U.S. In that time I will be watching boards like this and revues and if it turns out to be a POS I will buy something else. It is that simple.

Third, Wrangler owners as a whole are not pricks. It's just that the Wrangler is the only true Jeep left to buy. It's the vehicle that started it all. It's the vehicle that began the loyalty to Jeep. And now loyal Jeep purists are sitting back watching Marchionne introduce these Cracker Jack box "Jeeps" that are front wheel drive, tiny inside and out, have zero articulation, no ground clearance, and cannot even negotiate a snow storm and yet they are slapping Trail Rated badges on them and trying to pass them off as Jeeps and it's a sacrilege to these folks. You have to try and view things from their shoes. They aren't being punks...they just really care about what the brand stands for and CARS are not what the brand is supposed to stand for. There are 100 other brands that sell cars.
I never said all Wrangler owners are pricks and I am sorry if I came across that way. I have multiple friends that own Wranglers like I said. However, You go to Jeeps Facebook page anytime someone mentions "Renegade" you do get some prick always trying to start a fight. Then if you check the Wrangler forums, most of them poo- poo all over the Renegade and act like a bunch of high school girls when a hot new chick moves into their school. This is what is so funny about you wrangler folks and doubters; NO ONE KNOWS THE RENEGADES CAPABILITY. Yeah it doesn't have the articulation and suspension travel as the Wrangler and no one has ever said it can out do it. But, I am willing to bet it will surprise people, and will do better than any AWD vehicles like Subaru who has an outstanding reputation for snow and foul weather driving. You folks are already condemning the vehicle before it has had a chance to prove or disprove its' self. Give it a chance and give yourselfs a break.

The draw to the Renegade is it's fuel efficiency. But official EPA numbers are not out yet. Time will tell if the Renegade can really post good numbers but I'm expecting a combined number of 25 with a highway number around 30 on the non TrailHawk models...and since I know from first hand experience the Wrangler averages 20 with low 20s on the highway in the real world this would be a nice little bump in fuel savings. That's the ONLY advantage the Renegade is going to have so they better not screw this up like everything else! Good luck Jeep!
Thanks for helping me prove the point why Jeep needs the Renegade to survive. Like CalTom has said and I have said, you need to learn about CAFE standards. Maybe then you will learn why Renegade is so important to Jeep and it will save it's rear end despite what a water downed car it is.
 
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