I do wonder if thats an attitude pervasive with Jeep salesmen however...I went down to my local Dodge/Jeep dealer here last week to get the oil changed in my Fiat Abarth. While I was waiting I went out and perused the new cars and they had a Cherokee there and I was looking at it for a bit and discussing it with a couple of salesmen and the manager. I told them I could not get past the stupid (not said that harshly of course) face on the Cherokee and I was waiting to see the Renegade.
That got us off and running on how the Renegade sucked, it was going to be tiny as it was based on Fiat "stuff" and was going to be small like "those tiny little cars". They did not know I drove one of those in apparently. I said it was going to be a nice replacement for the Liberty, they said oh no, much too small. I said it was going to be a hot seller, they said they doubted it.
I left them for a bit and grabbed the Cherokee and Wrangler books off the wall and then pulled the info and measurements of the Renegade off the net on the phone. Then I went and showed them the measurement differences and they were shocked, they literally had no idea. I had much fun showing them that what they were dismissing as tiny was not, basically everything they thought was incorrect about the vehicle. Now, I know they have not beet trained yet, but seriously, maybe they should know a LITTLE bit about what they are selling. I'd never purchase from them needless to say, but the lack of knowledge just a few months out is astounding.
I tried to find comparison photos of the renegade beside the Cherokee as I thought I'd seen some on here but I could not find photos of size anywhere to show them.
1 - 20 of 40 Posts
2
Those Renegades are built to be sold not to be taken a look at ...:x
But they are not built for the usual Jeep mechanic who is used to fix anything with a Sledgehammer ...
>Fantastic illustration! Thank you!So once again the two Montages i did ...
First the classic Cherokee:
![]()
Then the new one:
![]()
The real Wrangler Guy is an Old Fart who thinks the real Wranglers ended with the CJ more than 20 Years ago ... they don´t buy younger models and don´t have any idea that driving old trash metal was the reason for that drove Chrysler Jeep to companies like Mercedes and Fiat.
They complain about Fiat and don´t realize that every Company building Cars have to sell them to exist ... and the reason is that those Morons just don´t get used to Things they can´t fix with a Sledgehammer ...
They complain about Fiat and don´t realize that every Company building Cars have to sell them to exist ... and the reason is that those Morons just don´t get used to Things they can´t fix with a Sledgehammer ...
You and I agree on a lot of things. But I'm going to have to call you out on some of this, respectfully.
First of all, Jeep is Chrysler's most profitable brand. If Chrysler had died, somebody else would have picked up Jeep. Fiat has NOTHING to do with Jeep's livelihood or success. And in fact, Fiat IS killing the Jeep brand slowly but surely. For the first time ever we're seeing ALL Jeeps in the lineup being watered down like cars. Soon, there will be nothing to set Jeep apart from any other brand on the U.S. market and that will be a sad day.Second, the technology you speak of has been a train wreck. The new Pentastar engines have had serious problems with heads, oil cooler, casting sand contamination, etc. The 8 and 9 speed transmissions have both had massive problems...to the point that Jeep shelved the release of the Cherokee for months to try and solve the problem and STILL had to issue patches and TSBs for the Cherokee and Grand Cherokee both. The Renegade is going to be problematic when it arrives...trust me. And this is NOT good news...because Fiat has always been a very low quality brand and in America it has the lowest reputation possible. So Fiat is HURTING Jeep, certainly not helping them.
Third, Wrangler owners as a whole are not pricks. It's just that the Wrangler is the only true Jeep left to buy. It's the vehicle that started it all. It's the vehicle that began the loyalty to Jeep. And now loyal Jeep purists are sitting back watching Marchionne introduce these Cracker Jack box "Jeeps" that are front wheel drive, tiny inside and out, have zero articulation, no ground clearance, and cannot even negotiate a snow storm and yet they are slapping Trail Rated badges on them and trying to pass them off as Jeeps and it's a sacrilege to these folks. You have to try and view things from their shoes. They aren't being punks...they just really care about what the brand stands for and CARS are not what the brand is supposed to stand for. There are 100 other brands that sell cars.
The draw to the Renegade is it's fuel efficiency. But official EPA numbers are not out yet. Time will tell if the Renegade can really post good numbers but I'm expecting a combined number of 25 with a highway number around 30 on the non TrailHawk models...and since I know from first hand experience the Wrangler averages 20 with low 20s on the highway in the real world this would be a nice little bump in fuel savings. That's the ONLY advantage the Renegade is going to have so they better not screw this up like everything else! Good luck Jeep!
Who would have picked up Jeep? Thats an awful big assumption. How do you figure Fiat has nothing to do with Jeep livelihood or success? They bought and own Jeep lock stock and barrel. As it was pointed out already by Willierracinesjeep, Cherokee are moving as fast as they make them and with the Renegade being Europe's hottest compact SUV, how is that not a result of Fiat and how is it killing Jeeps revenue and worth? Jeep was not global at all on the scale it CURRENTLY is now.You and I agree on a lot of things. But I'm going to have to call you out on some of this, respectfully.
As far as being water downed; Something you and the die hard Wrangler folks need to understand that anybody with common sense knows and car manufactures knows is that a company can not survive off of one model. Fiat is pouring billions into improving and expanding the Jeep product to appeal to more people GLOBALLY to increase its profits and to increase the brands worth and use. That means coming out with different models that might not be "Wrangler Worthy".
For crackers and cheese however, lets do it your way of only producing die hard jeeps such as the Wrangler. Lets start off with by 2025 due to CAFE standards, Jeep and the Wrangler would be dead if the competition didn't kill them off first. There is no way the current model of Wrangler will meet those standards, PERIOD. Then lets talk about modern comfort. Do you think the old CJ7 would actually be a hot seller today given whats on the market? Even today the Wrangler is not the best as far a comfort room and practicality. I know I have friends with Wrangler Unlimited's and I found after the L.A. Auto Show the Renegade is more comfortable, more easy to get in and out of, and had more leg room in the backseat than the Wrangler. Sitting up front I found it the same way.
ALL, I REPEAT ALL, new technology and car models have issues. It doesn't matter WHO makes it. Look at Toyota- they are still doing Recalls on the Prius Gen 1. Chevy has had more recalls for their ignition switch than cars they produced. Tesla had a recall for its battery because it would catch on fire after the car ran over something solid. ****, even my wifes 2002 Honda Civic had a recall with the airbag six months ago. Tell me a car maker on the face of this earth that DOESN'T have a recall or TSB? Please don't tell me either that Jeep has an outstanding reputation for reliability and quality either when they got most worst to buy used from Forbes and Consumer Reports.
As far as Fiat reliability and rep, couldn't agree more. I own a Fiat 500 Abarth. For the first 25K miles it was the biggest POS I have ever owned. However, I am now at at 45K miles and have not had a lick of trouble except the POS audio and voice connect and the right rear tire being out of alignment that can't be fixed. I think though half the issues I had were dealer induced because I caught them sabotaging my car and since I switched dealers it has been problem free.... This is also Fiats first Gen car so it is going to have issues and the same will go for the Renegade. You bet the Renegade is going to have issues. That is why I am going to wait at least two years after they become released in the U.S. In that time I will be watching boards like this and revues and if it turns out to be a POS I will buy something else. It is that simple.
I never said all Wrangler owners are pricks and I am sorry if I came across that way. I have multiple friends that own Wranglers like I said. However, You go to Jeeps Facebook page anytime someone mentions "Renegade" you do get some prick always trying to start a fight. Then if you check the Wrangler forums, most of them poo- poo all over the Renegade and act like a bunch of high school girls when a hot new chick moves into their school. This is what is so funny about you wrangler folks and doubters; NO ONE KNOWS THE RENEGADES CAPABILITY. Yeah it doesn't have the articulation and suspension travel as the Wrangler and no one has ever said it can out do it. But, I am willing to bet it will surprise people, and will do better than any AWD vehicles like Subaru who has an outstanding reputation for snow and foul weather driving. You folks are already condemning the vehicle before it has had a chance to prove or disprove its' self. Give it a chance and give yourselfs a break.
Thanks for helping me prove the point why Jeep needs the Renegade to survive. Like CalTom has said and I have said, you need to learn about CAFE standards. Maybe then you will learn why Renegade is so important to Jeep and it will save it's rear end despite what a water downed car it is.
1 - 20 of 40 Posts
