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This is Stellantis' way too late response to the Bronco Sport. I sometimes wish I could take the doors off my Jeep. But I like it, it's really is like a big Rene. I like electric cars, but off road vehicles should get a gas generator option at purchase. Either built in or external. I'll take an electric Rene that can self generate energy over either all gas or electric.
I'm still expecting a Wrangler revamp announcement to better compete with the Bronco. Not sure what the difference between the Avenger and the 500x is tho? I imagine it's still a FCA Small Wide 4×4... "Let make a Jeep with even less cargo space."
 

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I'm fine with that. Though I've always felt that if you're not off-roading to at least some extent, you don't really need a 4x4 SUV. (OK, maybe in the snow...)

"These cars exist in cities, they go up kerbs, they need body armour." I think that's Jeep's rationalization, and that they're really playing on the Jeep legend in Europe... (Though they misspelled "curb" and "armor"... :whistle: )
 

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What they always leave out is how much the range diminishes in the winter temperatures:) ....Also snow doesn't melt off the hood.it'll just pile up, just ask anyone that has driven a tesla through a decent snowstorm.
 

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If the range is somewhat close to what they are claiming, it doesn't seem to be a bad deal. But for off-road ? Nah. I can always carry Jerry cans, I can't carry spare batteries.

To me, the best scenario would be a hybrid; battery for getting there, throw a toggle for only gas for off-roading (ideally having the gas engine charge the batteries), battery for getting back home. Or make the roof of the vehicle one big solar charging panel.
 

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This is Stellantis' way too late response to the Bronco Sport. I sometimes wish I could take the doors off my Jeep. But I like it, it's really is like a big Rene. I like electric cars, but off road vehicles should get a gas generator option at purchase. Either built in or external. I'll take an electric Rene that can self generate energy over either all gas or electric.
I'm still expecting a Wrangler revamp announcement to better compete with the Bronco. Not sure what the difference between the Avenger and the 500x is tho? I imagine it's still a FCA Small Wide 4×4... "Let make a Jeep with even less cargo space."
Hunh? The bronco sport was the response to everyone launching B-segment SUVs, and most directly a response to the renegade. It's bigger than the renegade. The Avenger is a teeny EU EV. It is on the CMP platform, and not the FCA small wide 4x4. It's a butch city car to deal with EV laws in the EU.
 

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Just wondering how far you "range worry warts" travel off-road in one trip? Do you bring jerry cans to the off-road park?
 

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Just wondering how far you "range worry warts" travel off-road in one trip? Do you bring jerry cans to the off-road park?
Fair observation.

Yet the Renegade Trailhawk, in particular has a tiny fuel tank. And not-so-great fuel mileage for its 1.3-liter displacement.

I've never run low going offroad here in the Rockies. I don't do long trails. On the other hand, I do see the fuel level running down awfully fast crawling around in 4WD...

I wonder how an electric 4x4 vehicle, with maybe a 250-mile range on the highway, would do under these conditions...
 

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I REALLY like the F.O.R.D. Bronco and the Bronco Sport. I mean I really like them. And I HATE F.O.R.D. I only had an Escort wagon cause I needed a car. The Broncos have changed my mind at a time when I was in the market for a Jeep Wrangler(JK). In some ways they made some Jeeps (JL,WK) seem dated. A year later I fell in love with and bought a Renegade.
I enjoy things that look like they were designed with care. The Broncos look like they were designed by people who like driving, not by bean counters chanting CUV(Blazer). Which is what I expected F.O.R.D. to do.
So to me this is Jeep's response, an all new modern off-road platform with all the bells and whistles: electric, it does rocks, and you can that the car apart. To be honest, if I could afford it I would buy a Bronco Sport.
 

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I wonder how an electric 4x4 vehicle, with maybe a 250-mile range on the highway, would do under these conditions...
That is a good question. I would speculate they would compare favorably to an ICE vehicle. That is to say, the percentage of best case range for an EV driven off-road would be better than for an ICE. Let's say (for example) your ICE vehicle was rated for 25 mpg and you have 10 usable gallons of fuel. The EPA would say you could travel 250 miles on that 10 gallons. In reality, when driving off-road you'd probably be lucky to travel 150 miles with that 10 gallons. On the other hand, I speculate an EV charged with the KWh of electricity for it to have an EPA-rated 250-mile range would travel 175 miles on the same off-road trip.

I make that speculation because an electric motor does not idle and it only uses (significant) power when it's driving the wheels. In most recreational off-road situations, the useful metric would not be how far you can go, but how long you can go (time). In that scenario, where speeds are minimal, idling is frequent, and torque is king, I'm pretty sure an EV would be a great choice.

Perhaps an EV might not be the best choice for a trek across Death Valley or trying to drive the Rubicon Trail.
 

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In reality, when driving off-road you'd probably be lucky to travel 150 miles with that 10 gallons.
I strongly agree. In fact, the fuel consumption is much worse than that crawling along in the mountains in 4WD -- even not in 4WD Low.

Which brings us back to the possibility of carrying extra fuel for an ICE -- if only for emergencies. I never have; but I would if, as you say, driving offroad in 4WD across Death Valley...
 

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I'm not a good representative for off-roading our Renegades. My treks off-road are less than 2 miles to berry patches and an occasional quarry,
 

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The new Recon is the Jeep's EV answer to the Bronco Sport.

View attachment 2396354977
Now that looks more like a response to the bronco. I'm digging the look, it'll be interesting to see it in non CGI form.

That is a good question. I would speculate they would compare favorably to an ICE vehicle. That is to say, the percentage of best case range for an EV driven off-road would be better than for an ICE. Let's say (for example) your ICE vehicle was rated for 25 mpg and you have 10 usable gallons of fuel. The EPA would say you could travel 250 miles on that 10 gallons. In reality, when driving off-road you'd probably be lucky to travel 150 miles with that 10 gallons. On the other hand, I speculate an EV charged with the KWh of electricity for it to have an EPA-rated 250-mile range would travel 175 miles on the same off-road trip.

I make that speculation because an electric motor does not idle and it only uses (significant) power when it's driving the wheels. In most recreational off-road situations, the useful metric would not be how far you can go, but how long you can go (time). In that scenario, where speeds are minimal, idling is frequent, and torque is king, I'm pretty sure an EV would be a great choice.

Perhaps an EV might not be the best choice for a trek across Death Valley or trying to drive the Rubicon Trail.
The problem with EV's is you can't carry some just in case electricity like you can carry a can of gas. But EVs do get max torque at zero RPM. Going slow over bumpy stuff shouldn't tax it like doing quarter mile pulls with a model S does to it. Also if they do regenerative hill descent control, you should be able to claw back some range from the travel up the hill.

However, reading some tesla boards, people with heavy ascents in their commutes see ranges drop by 60%. But they are also trying to go normal road speeds up those grades.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Pure EV in the US, or any other large country or country without plentiful electricity and charger infrastructure, makes little sense.

Hence the Hybrids!

The new 4Xe Grande Cherokee (Based on a version of the Alfa Stelvio platform) is meant to be pretty competent. (Although expensive here.)
And unlike the Renegade & Compass it can 4wheel purely on EV.




Having said that. I do like the look of both the Avenger and Recon.



Forbes said:
The Europe-only Avenger leads the EV onslaught in 2023
I guess no Avenger for NA.
 
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