[SteveZ]

Wow! All that knowledge and wisdom to give to the world after a two-minute test ride. Oh, to be that opinionated and ready to tell the world and FCA that all of FCA's engineers, marketeers and other business folk have failed. What they should have done was provide one oerson the oppotunity for a two-minute test ride of the prototype, as that would have canceled their worldwide business plans and revised the Jeep line forever. After all, there really only has to be one person in the world pleased.....

 

[MRM331]

I'm really loving this thread. I think I'll go over to McDonald's and tell everyone how great the Whopper is.

I was going to post a humorous picture but it's amazingly difficult to find a picture of a troll in a Cherokee on Google images...

-Jason

 

[twigaman]

Robert
Let me get this straight after all of your "advice" you are going to sell both of your Jeeps and move to LA.
Thank you Sir you have been most informative.So I guess the take home message is I should sell my loaded Jeep Renegade Trailhawk buy a lower trim level Cherokee which is better than my car, then sell that one as well. Thanks that is great advice. Thankyou.

 

[GoodCaptain]

Great? I'm happy people love their Cherokees. I'm not taking anything away from any other Jeeps. I'm a fan of most of them. I just have never wanted to join forums for things I don't have a complete interest in.

I didn't want a vehicle as big as the Cherokee, don't love the look of it, and I didn't even consider it. It wasn't for me. I don't need to see specs on it, or anything like that. Like I said before- happy the OP found what he likes. What else are we supposed to say here at this point on page 8 of a comparison thread? If it's going to be links to a different forum then maybe this thread has run its course.

Understood. But I don't agree that "not taking away from other Jeeps" is very helpful. I want to hear the negatives...

The Grand Cherokee Overland air suspension is a bit too stiff at times for a luxury SUV and the MPG is seriously poor unless you pay attention to the throttle.

The Wrangler has to be the roughest riding machine going. While it can fill the shoes of a "normal car" it doesn't do it very well. Steering is vague and feedback poor at highway speeds. The soft top continues to be a science experiment gone wrong.

The Cherokee is terrible without the larger 3.2 engine and the front seats could be more supportive for the class. Rear seat legroom is good, but headroom isn't great due to the roofline.

The Renegade is a fun package, but in desperate need of a proper engine since the it's far from light-weight. Sun roof buffeting is severe, especially with the back panel removed. We found the non-sunroof version a quieter ride.

What's the BIG deal with saying these things? That's the point of this thread; to measure the strengths and weaknesses against other cars.



Robert

 

[twigaman]

Robert
You are fine say what you think it's no problem. We're just saying what we think, we just disagree about some of the issues, is all.
Jeff

 

[GoodCaptain]

Robert
You are fine say what you think it's no problem. We're just saying what we think, we just disagree about some of the issues, is all.
Jeff

The only thing we disagree on is wind noise. But there's a distinct lack of credibility when someone claims NO wind noise. Every car has varying level of wind noise.

Beyond that there's simple specifications and performance. While each may weigh their importance differently, the advantages of the Cherokee remain all the same.

And because I persisted in not finding the Renegade the better Jeep, owners became angry, probably more so than if I insulted their wives. The current buyers claim the Renegade HP is fine. When FCA bumps it to 215 HP, buyers will jump for joy and proclaim "it's what the Renegade needed all along!"

Until then I think the Cherokee is the better buy. In the end buy what YOU like, but we should remain factual and realistic about the vehicles rather than blindly defending a purchases. I bought a Nikon Df digital camera. It's expensive and NOT class leading for the segment. There are cameras costing less that are better and do more. But I "liked" the interface of the Nikon and bought it anyway. That's it. I don't imbue the camera with magical properties to defend it to others.

The Renegade represents a unique value at the 22-26K price point. After that it's capabilities are met and ultimately eclipsed by the larger and more powerful models.


Robert

 

[SteveZ]

t

The only thing we disagree on is wind noise. But there's a distinct lack of credibility when someone claims NO wind noise. Every car has varying level of wind noise.

Beyond that there's simple specifications and performance. While each may weigh their importance differently, the advantages of the Cherokee remain all the same.

And because I persisted in not finding the Renegade the better Jeep, owners became angry, probably more so than if I insulted their wives. The current buyers claim the Renegade HP is fine. When FCA bumps it to 215 HP, buyers will jump for joy and proclaim "it's what the Renegade needed all along!"

Until then I think the Cherokee is the better buy. In the end buy what YOU like, but we should remain factual and realistic about the vehicles rather than blindly defending a purchases. I bought a Nikon Df digital camera. It's expensive and NOT class leading for the segment. There are cameras costing less that are better and do more. But I "liked" the interface of the Nikon and bought it anyway. That's it. I don't imbue the camera with magical properties to defend it to others.

The Renegade represents a unique value at the 22-26K price point. After that it's capabilities are met and ultimately eclipsed by the larger and more powerful models.


Robert

Robert, probably the point is, "larger and more powerful" doesn't necessarily "eclipse" anything, unless "larger and more poweful" is a customer criteria from the onset. If "larger and more powerful" are necessary for you, then that's for you, but it's not necessarily a customer criteria for everyone else. That should be evident by the purchase choice of a Renegade over a Jeep Cherokee, Range Rover Sport, or Mercedes GLA45 (its 0-60 is 4.3 seconds).

Price point is often a customer criteria, but a lot of customers will justify any price as long as all/most the "Goldilocks" (it feels just right) are satisfied. As practical as we try to sound regarding vehcle purchases, there's a lot of "but I just want it" involved, too. The "better buy" is the vehicle which meets the customer's "Goldilocks" criteria, and FCA (and other makers) have enough market research to know there is a worldwide market for vehicles in the smaller-sized SUV off-road-capable arena and have designed/built/distributed accordingly.

A lot of folk have responded, and their defense of purchase has been really trying to explain their customer criteria. You have done the same, as most of your comments have been why you think something is better or more important than something else. What that has defined is your customer criteria, but it's not a universal criteria. You are definitely within your rights to have a personal customer criteria, but don't expect that it can be professed as better than anyone else's criteria or that anything not filling your criteria as un-this or un-that without challenge. No criteria is that omnipotent, and if it was then the available vehicle models would still be like Hentry Ford's Model A (one size, color for all!).

Enjoy the Cherokee. It's a good car which satisfies a lot of customers. It's just not for me, probably for several of the reasons you prefer it. It's it good to have choices?

 

[GoodCaptain]

t

Robert, probably the point is, "larger and more powerful" doesn't necessarily "eclipse" anything, unless "larger and more poweful" is a customer criteria from the onset. If "larger and more powerful" are necessary for you, then that's for you, but it's not necessarily a customer criteria for everyone else. That should be evident by the purchase choice of a Renegade over a Jeep Cherokee, Range Rover Sport, or Mercedes GLA45 (its 0-60 is 4.3 seconds).

Price point is often a customer criteria, but a lot of customers will justify any price as long as all/most the "Goldilocks" (it feels just right) are satisfied. As practical as we try to sound regarding vehcle purchases, there's a lot of "but I just want it" involved, too. The "better buy" is the vehicle which meets the customer's "Goldilocks" criteria, and FCA (and other makers) have enough market research to know there is a worldwide market for vehicles in the smaller-sized SUV off-road-capable arena and have designed/built/distributed accordingly.

A lot of folk have responded, and their defense of purchase has been really trying to explain their customer criteria. You have done the same, as most of your comments have been why you think something is better or more important than something else. What that has defined is your customer criteria, but it's not a universal criteria. You are definitely within your rights to have a personal customer criteria, but don't expect that it can be professed as better than anyone else's criteria or that anything not filling your criteria as un-this or un-that without challenge. No criteria is that omnipotent, and if it was then the available vehicle models would still be like Hentry Ford's Model A (one size, color for all!).

Enjoy the Cherokee. It's a good car which satisfies a lot of customers. It's just not for me, probably for several of the reasons you prefer it. It's it good to have choices?

I appreciate your thoughtful response. Yes, "more" is only of value when you can use it or want it. I agree.

But personal preferences and requirements aside, a 3.2 V6 Cherokee is a more capable Jeep than a Renegade.

Personal needs should not factor in when giving an objective evaluation. If I'm going to compare a 2 slice toaster against a 4 slice, I can't pretend the 4 slice has no advantage just because I don't need the 4 slice version. I have to step around that and be objective enough to see that the slice is more capable.

From the Renegade on up there is a rising scale of comfort and capability (this does not include the Wrangler!). While we could debate what "someone" might need, I never set out to do that. I'm only talking about the two Jeeps and how they measure against eachother. The individual can decide if the added power, comfort and capability of the Cherokee is something they want or need. For example, for a bit more I could have gotten into a Grand Cherokee again. But I didn't need or want it for several reasons. Still, I know the Grand Cherokee is better than the Cherokee....just like I know the Cherokee is better than the Renegade. My needs (or yours) don't change that.

My new Hellcat will be faster than my previous SRT 392. Someones argument that "they" don't need an extra 200 HP is irrelevant. The Hellcat is the better sports sedan and muscle car period.


Robert

 

[raz-0]

Understood. But I don't agree that "not taking away from other Jeeps" is very helpful. I want to hear the negatives...

The Grand Cherokee Overland air suspension is a bit too stiff at times for a luxury SUV and the MPG is seriously poor unless you pay attention to the throttle.

The Wrangler has to be the roughest riding machine going. While it can fill the shoes of a "normal car" it doesn't do it very well. Steering is vague and feedback poor at highway speeds. The soft top continues to be a science experiment gone wrong.

The Cherokee is terrible without the larger 3.2 engine and the front seats could be more supportive for the class. Rear seat legroom is good, but headroom isn't great due to the roofline.

The Renegade is a fun package, but in desperate need of a proper engine since the it's far from light-weight. Sun roof buffeting is severe, especially with the back panel removed. We found the non-sunroof version a quieter ride.

What's the BIG deal with saying these things? That's the point of this thread; to measure the strengths and weaknesses against other cars.



Robert

If you can't tell the difference between your tone in this post, and your tone in most of the other posts, you may just have to take a break form this forum.

You aren't saying anything that is IMO controversial when you stick to the facts. However, you repeatedly ignore the comparison part and simply act derisive. Every vehicle is a set of compromises. This post points that out. You may like the compromises in the cherokee better. Other folks don't.

Most of your other posts are completely blind to the fact that the cherokee has any weaknesses to compare, and you persist in being more than a little arrogant and condescending about it.

If you need people to agree with you, go to a cherokee forum.

If you need to argue with people, check the attitude, or it won't be here.

If you need to always be right, well... time to find a new planet, because that never happens.

 

[twigaman]

Robert
I had a chevy truck with wind noise. I a consumer not an auto technician and to me the car has zero wind noise. Attack my credibility or not I don't hear any that I can tell, sorry to disappoint. I'm glad I don't hear any.
Thanks
Jeff

 

[The Drifter]

You'll bet how much money?

How sad. The SRT Charger Hellcat has NO manual transmission. The 6 speed is ONLY available in the Challenger, which is the far more common car.

I've driven the manual Challenger and it's a fun car, but the Charger is a more family-friendly car when needed and actually has the handling edge. I'm not a big believer in MTs in heavy cars. A Hellcat demands a lot of attention on chassis dynamics and the MT makes for a slower car overall. The ZF 8 speed in the Hellcat is a work of art while the 6 speed is merely good. Oh, and again...NOT available in the Charger. Read more forums and magazines so you don't get embarrassed again.

I find it highly unlikely that most of the folks here drive most of the cars being discussed, beyond the Renegade.


Robert

Funny, I don't feel embarrassed. And since your hellcat weighs well over 4500 lbs, if there is a handling edge over the challenger version, it is probably negligible. Any car that is that heavy is going to be throwing too much weight around in the corners to handle very good, no matter how much power it may have. The only reason it can do a skidpad at .94g is because of how sticky Pirelli P-zero tires are, which is baffling as to why the hellcat only has 275/40/20 tires in the rear...275's seem much too skinny for 700hp.

 

[GoodCaptain]

Robert
I had a chevy truck with wind noise. I a consumer not an auto technician and to me the car has zero wind noise. Attack my credibility or not I don't hear any that I can tell, sorry to disappoint. I'm glad I don't hear any.
Thanks
Jeff

Jeff, the worst thing people do online is lie. And I'll never back down from someone who openly lies.

EVERY CAR HAS WIND NOISE

http://elevatingsound.com/causes-of...he-noise-down-by-maintaining-your-door-seals/

http://elevatingsound.com/the-price-of-quiet-driving/

Even the mighty and very slippery Tesla and new Vette have wind noise. So does the Merc S class. It occurs because the cabin is not sound and vibration proof. Cars with MUCH more sound insulating still have wind noise.

And so does the Renegade. Please stop the nonsense.



Robert

 

[GoodCaptain]

Funny, I don't feel embarrassed. And since your hellcat weighs well over 4500 lbs, if there is a handling edge over the challenger version, it is probably negligible. Any car that is that heavy is going to be throwing too much weight around in the corners to handle very good, no matter how much power it may have. The only reason it can do a skidpad at .94g is because of how sticky Pirelli P-zero tires are, which is baffling as to why the hellcat only has 275/40/20 tires in the rear...275's seem much too skinny for 700hp.

I love to read comments from people who haven't driven the cars being discussed. On a real road the Hellcat handles very nicely. Did you think the reviewers were all lying? Did you not notice that a Hellcat did Willow Springs faster than Audi R8, M3, Vette and less than a second behind the GTR? To do that course well you need power AND good handling. I owned a 2015 SRT 392 Charger and have driven all versions of the Hellcat, except for the A8 Challenger.

The Charger feels more sure footed at high speeds than the Challenger, for starters, but go drive the cars and tell us what you find.

The reason why you're "baffled" about tires is because you know so little about cars. The P-Zero are a excellent all-around tire that wear very well. SRT knew that the P-0 275's would provide a good balance dry, or wet and bring in good numbers. They also knew enthusiasts would eventually choose their own runners or drag radials, just as I will.

Please, go drive these cars or buy one before giving your views.

FYI: Here are pics of my SRT 392 that I just traded for the Hellcat...

Robert

 

[The Drifter]

I love to read comments from people who haven't driven the cars being discussed. On a real road the Hellcat handles very nicely. Did you think the reviewers were all lying? Did you not notice that a Hellcat did Willow Springs faster than Audi R8, M3, Vette and less than a second behind the GTR? To do that course well you need power AND good handling. I owned a 2015 SRT 392 Charger and have driven all versions of the Hellcat, except for the A8 Challenger.

The Charger feels more sure footed at high speeds than the Challenger, for starters, but go drive the cars and tell us what you find.

The reason why you're "baffled" about tires is because you know so little about cars. The P-Zero are a excellent all-around tire that wear very well. SRT knew that the P-0 275's would provide a good balance dry, or wet and bring in good numbers. They also knew enthusiasts would eventually choose their own runners or drag radials, just as I will.

Please, go drive these cars or buy one before giving your views.

FYI:

Robert

So let me get this straight - you think that because I'm baffled by a manufacturers choice to skimp out on skinny tire sizes, that automatically I must not know anything about cars. You're logic is embarrasing.

If it makes you feel better, I actually have driven a GTR, M3, and Vette. All of which have MUCH less power than the hellcat, and the GTR was quicker still at Willow springs you say, which is not surprising. How about comparing your Hellcat to something with comparable power, say a 650 hp 2015 corvette Z06? It still has 57 hp less than you and I'm sure that thing would obliterate your hellcat around willow springs. If you want a 4-door comparison, try going up against a 2016 Cadillac CTS-V around willow springs. It has 62 hp less than you, it's a sedan like yours, but it's got very good track oriented engineering plus 295's in the rear so you'd probably lose that battle too.

And you're right I haven't driven a hellcat. I haven't bothered trying out a hellcat since I know I don't like heavy cars, or ugly cars, and I consider the hellcat quite ugly, although the challenger version does look much better than the charger version but of course that is just my opinion. Cheers Robert.

 

[raz-0]

Jeff, the worst thing people do online is lie. And I'll never back down from someone who openly lies.

EVERY CAR HAS WIND NOISE

http://elevatingsound.com/causes-of...he-noise-down-by-maintaining-your-door-seals/

http://elevatingsound.com/the-price-of-quiet-driving/

Even the mighty and very slippery Tesla and new Vette have wind noise. So does the Merc S class. It occurs because the cabin is not sound and vibration proof. Cars with MUCH more sound insulating still have wind noise.

And so does the Renegade. Please stop the nonsense.



Robert

While you are technically correct that every car has wind noise, one of those links is a how to on cleaning door seals, and the other is a measure of interior cabin noise. Which is not wind noise.

To quote http://www.thecarconnection.com/review/1096413_2015-jeep-renegade_quality_4

Under most circumstances, the Renegade is surprisingly quiet and refined on the road for such a blunt, tall vehicle. But tire noise varies hugely, from almost none to a great deal on certain types of rough concrete roads. Still, in most cases, there's essentially no wind noise until you hit 70 mph or more. That's doubly impressive when you factor in the nice big rectangular door mirrors and the relatively vertical windshield.

And they are right. Unless your door seals are out of whack, or the door alignment, the renegade does an amazing job dealing with wind noise. On par with many luxury sedans I have driven or ridden in, and it kicks the snot out of most segment peers. However, it does have one buzzy, droney, power plant, and not the quietest tires out there. Which does compromise cabin noise to an extent.

I will note that the renegade cabin db doesn't exceed the cherokee's until 75mph. Technically, as at that point it is likely undetectable difference. The cherokee doesn't fare better bya significant amount until 85mph. I'll note both are louder than the current hyundia tuscon, and they both do better than the CX-5. The renegade also does better until 85 than the audi Q3, bmw x3,

Heck it does better than a Toyota Prius wagon other than at idle (prius isn't running essentially and beats LOTS of things), and at 85mph+.

And that's with the buzz bomb of an engine in the renegade. Your clearly superior is... well... measurably not much different.

You can go compare here against lots of models.

http://www.auto-decibel-db.com

 

[GoodCaptain]

So let me get this straight - you think that because I'm baffled by a manufacturers choice to skimp out on skinny tire sizes, that automatically I must not know anything about cars. You're logic is embarrasing.

If it makes you feel better, I actually have driven a GTR, M3, and Vette. All of which have MUCH less power than the hellcat, and the GTR was quicker still at Willow springs you say, which is not surprising. How about comparing your Hellcat to something with comparable power, say a 650 hp 2015 corvette Z06? It still has 57 hp less than you and I'm sure that thing would obliterate your hellcat around willow springs. If you want a 4-door comparison, try going up against a 2016 Cadillac CTS-V around willow springs. It has 62 hp less than you, it's a sedan like yours, but it's got very good track oriented engineering plus 295's in the rear so you'd probably lose that battle too.

And you're right I haven't driven a hellcat. I haven't bothered trying out a hellcat since I know I don't like heavy cars, or ugly cars, and I consider the hellcat quite ugly, although the challenger version does look much better than the charger version but of course that is just my opinion. Cheers Robert.

You're actually comparing performance based on HP instead of power to weight ratios? You're quite the expert!

The P-zero tires is well regarded and no one in their right mind would call it "skimping out." I've driven the Hellcat on the OEM tires and DR Nittos as well as the Continentals.
The new CTS is STILL slower than the Hellcat on a real road and we'll have to see how it does on a track. There's already video on youtube with the Hellcat besting the new Caddy again and again.
Whether you like it or not, the Hellcat Charger runs with fast company, handles well and offers unusual comfort for the class. It has no real competition for 68K
But otherwise the Hellcat has been the talk of the town for good reason; it hangs with dedicated sports cars that often have two seats and lack comfort and practicality. The Charger Hellcat is very practical, just like the SRT 392.
The GT-R is one of my favorite cars and I nearly bought one last August. But the back seats are pretty much unlivable, so it'll have to wait for a bit.

You seriously need to drive first and then give an opinion. You also don't really seem to understand chassis dynamics at all. You don't compare a big sedan with a two seat plastic car just because they have the same HP.

You're simply in over your head with this discussion because you have not driven these cars. But like I said, you must think all of rave reviews and love for the Hellcat is a lie. I hope it makes you feel better.

:laugh:

Robert

 

[The Drifter]

You're actually comparing performance based on HP instead of power to weight ratios? You're quite the expert!

The P-zero tires is well regarded and no one in their right mind would call it "skimping out." I've driven the Hellcat on the OEM tires and DR Nittos as well as the Continentals.
The new CTS is STILL slower than the Hellcat on a real road and we'll have to see how it does on a track. There's already video on youtube with the Hellcat besting the new Caddy again and again.
Whether you like it or not, the Hellcat Charger runs with fast company, handles well and offers unusual comfort for the class. It has no real competition for 68K
But otherwise the Hellcat has been the talk of the town for good reason; it hangs with dedicated sports cars that often have two seats and lack comfort and practicality. The Charger Hellcat is very practical, just like the SRT 392.
The GT-R is one of my favorite cars and I nearly bought one last August. But the back seats are pretty much unlivable, so it'll have to wait for a bit.

You seriously need to drive first and then give an opinion. You also don't really seem to understand chassis dynamics at all. You don't compare a big sedan with a two seat plastic car just because they have the same HP.

You're simply in over your head with this discussion because you have not driven these cars. But like I said, you must think all of rave reviews and love for the Hellcat is a lie. I hope it makes you feel better.

:laugh:

Robert

Pirelli P-Zeros are very sticky and very good tires. I don't get why you think I'm saying they aren't. I'm saying Dodge should have made the wheels wider and put wider tires on the hellcat from the factory. More sticky rubber = better grip, better grip = improved acceleration and better handling. If the Hellcat did not come with such an outstanding tire, the 275 width would not be so great in maintaining grip, given how much power the hellcat has.

Power to weight Ratio is very important, but I prefer a light car with less power than a heavy car with a lot of power, simply because I prefer the way a lighter car behaves when you drive it hard.

Oh, and I have driven a 2016 CTS AND a 2016 Covette Z06, so I do understand these cars. I have driven 100's of sports cars. I majored in industrial design in college, during my college years I also performed engine swaps and transmission conversions (from automatic to manual of course) in my cars and friends cars, I have worked in the automotive industry since then, and I take my other personal car with track tuned 18 way coilover suspension, adjustable swaybars, adjustable endlinks, camber arms, control arms and caster adjustment plates (that were all installed by me) to Virginal International Raceway once a year and drive it at its limits with my Track Club...but what would I know about cars? What would I know about chassis dynamics? I suppose I'm much too in over my head after speaking with you with all the godly amount of knowledge that you have, and all your experience with the GTR and the Hellcat.

Oh and here's another thing I don't get. You post all this stuff...on a Jeep Renegade forum. Please learn how to use the internet. Why don't you just post your Charger pics on the Charger/Camaro/Mustang forums where other people who like them big ol' cars can appreciate it?

And to stay on topic, The Renegade is better than the Cherokee. Yes, that is my opinion, and it is also the same opinion of everyone on this forum since well, this is actually a Jeep Renegade forum. We don't care how nice the ride in the Cherokee is. We don't care if the Cherokee is quieter on the highway. The Cherokee looks like a KIA, fuel economy is not as good, it is not offered with a turbocharged engine and you cant get it with a manual transmission. You even had to get your cherokee all blacked out to hide all the hideous lines from yourself since it looked so bad in color. If we thought the Cherokee was better we would all be members on the Cherokee forum. Jeep Renegade FTW. And FTW means For - The - Win.

 

[GoodCaptain]

Pirelli P-Zeros are very sticky and very good tires. I don't get why you think I'm saying they aren't. I'm saying Dodge should have made the wheels wider and put wider tires on the hellcat from the factory. More sticky rubber = better grip, better grip = improved acceleration and better handling. If the Hellcat did not come with such an outstanding tire, the 275 width would not be so great in maintaining grip, given how much power the hellcat has.

Power to weight Ratio is very important, but I prefer a light car with less power than a heavy car with a lot of power, simply because I prefer the way a lighter car behaves when you drive it hard.

Oh, and I have driven a 2016 CTS AND a 2016 Covette Z06, so I do understand these cars. I have driven 100's of sports cars. I majored in industrial design in college, during my college years I also performed engine swaps and transmission conversions (from automatic to manual of course) in my cars and friends cars, I have worked in the automotive industry since then, and I take my other personal car with track tuned 18 way coilover suspension, adjustable swaybars, adjustable endlinks, camber arms, control arms and caster adjustment plates (that were all installed by me) to Virginal International Raceway once a year and drive it at its limits with my Track Club...but what would I know about cars? What would I know about chassis dynamics? I suppose I'm much too in over my head after speaking with you with all the godly amount of knowledge that you have, and all your experience with the GTR and the Hellcat.

Oh and here's another thing I don't get. You post all this stuff...on a Jeep Renegade forum. Please learn how to use the internet. Why don't you just post your Charger pics on the Charger/Camaro/Mustang forums where other people who like them big ol' cars can appreciate it?

And to stay on topic, The Renegade is better than the Cherokee. Yes, that is my opinion, and it is also the same opinion of everyone on this forum since well, this is actually a Jeep Renegade forum. We don't care how nice the ride in the Cherokee is. We don't care if the Cherokee is quieter on the highway. The Cherokee looks like a KIA, fuel economy is not as good, it is not offered with a turbocharged engine and you cant get it with a manual transmission. You even had to get your cherokee all blacked out to hide all the hideous lines from yourself since it looked so bad in color. If we thought the Cherokee was better we would all be members on the Cherokee forum. Jeep Renegade FTW. And FTW means For - The - Win.

That's quite the rant! So let's take it point by point.

1) You claim that FCA skimped on the Hellcat tires. But you've never driven one on the stock tires, DRs or anything else. Nice.

2) I'm glad to hear that you have some "sort" of car you enjoy, but it's a little late to claim you know much. You 100% exposed yourself when you compared a 4500 lb 4 door sedan with a purpose built Vette and GT-R. That's what kids do before they get a license.

3) And you thought there was a 6 speed for the Charger! Even arm-chair enthusiasts know better.

4) While I mentioned the Hellcat, you started this by trying to pretend you knew something about FCA products. Remember? And you got slapped. :nerd:

5) I like small cars too. I enjoyed my Evo X and Cayman S. Before that I restored MG's. I pretty much have an appreciation for all cars.

Summary:
That thing in your back is the fork I left there. You're done. The Renegade is a good car and I said so. But it's way down in power and ride quality compared to the better models. It simply doesn't have the numbers to back up what you want to believe, but believe it if you'll sleep better at night.

Basically, what you really want is for me to come out and say I dislike the Renegade. Sorry, I won't do that. But just like the Cherokee, the Renegade will be rounded out after 2-3 years. You're so wounded that you're reduced to attacking Hellcats(that you never drove), Cherokees and me. You can't make progress if you don't have a clue, especially when repeatedly exposing such ignorance.

BTW, Randy Probst said the P-zeros worked well on the Hellcat for most applications. It's a perfect OEM tire to start with. But what does he know? You should give him a call and fax over your industrial design degree! >:crying:


Robert

 

[twigaman]

Forum moderators I formally protest to being called a liar by the Captain. I am not a liar and feel like he now needs to be ejected from this forum.

 

[twigaman]

Forum moderators I formally protest to being called a liar by the Captain. I am not a liar and feel like he now needs to be ejected from this forum.

By the way, I do not hear any wind noise in the cabin of my Trailhawk.