[sftouchton]

Wife got forced off the road at low speed, hit a telephone pole dead center. No one seriously hurt.

Collision avoidance did not work..... would think it should. When in college back in the 80's we worked on a system for a class that did detect telephone poles.... maybe technology has digressed??

So - lets say I am a little disappointed with the collision avoidance system.

The Renegade took it well, not hard enough for airbag deployment.

Bumper, grille and hood all pressed back 8" to 1 foot. Fenders look fine.

No leaks, I drove the car home from the scene. Headlights still aimed properly, alignment fine - drove real well except for a rough engine at idle. Was unable to open hood, so not sure how bad it really is.

I would say I am impressed at how it absorbed the impact.

No pics yet... but can post some later.

 

[dgr401]

Sorry to hear this, very glad no serious injuries.

 

[syzygy]

Collision avoidance only applies the brakes.
If you get forced off the road, the chances are no collision avoidance system would stop you very quickly.
Glad to hear nobody was seriously hurt.
Let us Know how the repair goes.

 

[sftouchton]

Thanks for you concern - it was a blessing that no one was seriously hurt - just some bumps and bruises.

As for the collision avoidance, I would hope it would detect the pole and apply the brakes - it did not and I would like to know why (my first job out of college was military radar systems, so I know what could be done 30 years ago...) Jeep dealership of course has little data on how and why it works, so I have not found someone to talk with yet. True fault probably lies with the hybrid approach - radar reported the pole, but vision system did not concur that it was an issue - hence no activation. Along that thinking, it would not detect a pedestrian as has been advertised by other systems.

Renny is at the body shop, and there is a whole ton of concern at this point about part availability. Will probably know more after the holidays. I will definitely let you know how this goes, and will post pictures when the depression passes :crying:

 

[lamont]

As for the collision avoidance, I would hope it would detect the pole and apply the brakes - it did not and I would like to know why:

Unless the driver was not braking, how do you know Collision Avoidance wasn't applying the brake?

 

[sftouchton]

Couple reasons......

It beeps before applying, and both my wife and son said no beep.

My wife said it happened so fast she did not have time to hit the brakes.

Fellow behind them reported not seeing brake lights.

So from this I conclude that the computer did not qualify this as a braking event.

What is a little frustrating is that I cannot find out from Jeep what a qualifying event is, and the most I have determined is that it is intended solely for detecting another automobile - and that comes from the marketing propaganda. There does not seem to be any technical info released at this point.

I do believe that impact speed was sub-20mph, and did ask if the collision avoidance was only functional above a certain speed. I got two opposing answers on that. So I do believe the US dealerships are still learning about the vehicle.

As you can see from the photo - accident was minor. Don't take my critiquing of the collision avoidance as negative, my wife and I love the vehicle, it is perfect for her. As an old engineer, I know technology exists to avoid this type of collision, was hoping that it was on the Renny.

I do know the collision avoidance is functional - it worked for me when someone cut in front of me on the highway.

 

[MJAB]

The system is sourced by Bosch and uses, as sftouchton wrote, data fusion from radar and video camera.
From Bosch media press it seems, as sftouchton wrote, that automatic breaking is active only if data from both radar and video camera confirms that there an obstacle approaching.

"... For automatic emergency braking — which independently applies the brakes if the driver fails to react to an impending collision — Bosch also fuses a radar sensor and the multi purpose camera. The automatic full deceleration is only triggered if both sensor systems detect the critical object. ..."
http://www.bosch-mobility-solutions.us/en_us/us/component_us/SF_PC_DA_Predictive-Emergency-Braking-System_SF_CV_Driver-Assistance-Systems_511.html?compId=2432

From what I understood when looking for active safety systems in Jeep Renegade about a year ago, Renegade and 500X systems are active to avoid collisions with other vehicles at speed over 7 km/h / 4 mph.
Even if the sensors could be used for pedestrians crash prevention that algorythms are not used (too much not detected pedestrians?).
The system has problems with bad weather like, for example, heavy rain.

The radar has a range of around 170 m and in 77 GHz frequency with an horizontal angle around 42° and data refresh every 20 ms.
I didn't found informations about what kind of video camera is used (I know in Fiat 500L is a LIDAR type, always from Bosch).

 

[Girenegade]

Sorry to hear man. Glad everyone is ok. Looks like The jeep held up, but u said sub-20mhp any vehicle should hold up well.

 

[syzygy]

It may help if you could be more specific about the incident. When she was run off the road, what type of surface was she forced onto, and probably more relevant, how far from the pole was she when she left the road.?

 

[sftouchton]

She had right of way making a left turn at intersection - another driver failed to yield right of way, and when she attempted to evade she found the telephone pole. Never had a chance to hit the brakes, and basically moving at a "slow speed", probably no more than 15 to 20mph. Pole was located along side of road at the intersection. Driver side wheel was in the mud and stones, passenger wheels on pavement of a parking lot.

Update on repairs - I was hoping the damage was cosmetic, but it is not.

A/C condenser and trans cooler damaged. I am told transmission fluid is special and expensive - $50 US /quart. A/C system requires a special refrigerant that can only be serviced at Jeep dealer. Repairs are approaching $10,000 US. Besides the obvious external damage, radiator is bent into a "V" but not leaking, radiator mount is shot, all bumper mounts and supports are shot, hood and all associated stuff shot, fenders damaged internally.

Parts due to be delivered tomorrow - not sure where from! Lots of questions about the electronics, particularly the radar system - no one seems to know in my area (Pennsylvania) how to test!

Will keep you posted......

 

[sftouchton]

Just a little more info - I have a Drivewise monitor in the renegade (Allstate insurance).

Looked up the night of the accident, and the recorded speed was 16.1 mph.

 

[raz-0]

Well the tests of collision avoidance systems use a fake car rear end similar in construction to one of those pop up tents for kids. When it fails, they just hit it.

 

[sportsjunky2]

Looks like the Renegade did pretty good vs the pole. Glad to hear everyone was okay and hopefully it won't take months to repair and get parts.

 

[sftouchton]

Just an update and some additional pics.

Parts have become a problem. There a few items that Jeep has no parts listing for - so acquiring them at the moment is problematic. In addition, several of the parts shipped in have been received damaged.

2 attached pics show the extent of the damage. Pretty much everything between the engine and the telephone pole got squished, including the exhaust manifold. From the outside it didn't look too bad, but underneath it is pretty severe.


I started thinking about the collision avoidance radar - besides being designed to detect another vehicle, it has to deactivate below a certain speed (so you can park the car!). Currently cannot figure out what that speed would be. If anyone has that info I would like to know!

 

[sftouchton]

Just a further update - Chrysler Engineering has absolutely positively no knowledge of the existence of the exhaust manifold heat shield. So the old one will need to be reformed and put back in place until the parts end of Chrysler realizes that yes, one was installed on the Jeep so that it obviously exists!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Am I really the first one with a front end wrecked Remy in the US????????????????????????????????

 

[Willy]

I find situations like this to be the perfect representation of the very real dangers that come from these systems. They breed a complacenty or a sense of expectation. It's an infantile paradise, someone else is picking up the check so to speak. The car is paying attention you don't have to.

I'm not saying this is the case in this instance. I'm saying this instance highlights the dangers of putting all your faith in the car over your own abilities. Some times the technology simply isn't there for you, and if you were counting on that to save your ass your SOL.

 

[raz-0]

Just a further update - Chrysler Engineering has absolutely positively no knowledge of the existence of the exhaust manifold heat shield. So the old one will need to be reformed and put back in place until the parts end of Chrysler realizes that yes, one was installed on the Jeep so that it obviously exists!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Am I really the first one with a front end wrecked Remy in the US????????????????????????????????

That wasn't totaled, or more minor? Possibly. You are the only one posting here with this degree of damage to the front end of the vehicle that I have seen.

 

[DogsRule]

That wasn't totaled, or more minor? Possibly. You are the only one posting here with this degree of damage to the front end of the vehicle that I have seen.

I must say with no airbag at 16mph, the wife should be wary of any hidden damage to her. Stiffness and muscle ache should be treated and not dismissed. So far, the Reny has had all the attention.

Now to the car, yes it is a lot of damage but remember, all that force was directed to a small frontal area. There could have been less intrusion if it was clear across the whole frontal area.

Question: Did the two underhood loops serve any positive purpose here? Did they keep the hood from migrating backward any distance? Or did they just pull their attachment points out and cause more under hood damage?

Overall, I expect you all will be OK soon.

 

[sftouchton]

Just a quick update:

We have a couple of parts on National Backorder!!

Body shop is hoping to find them sitting on dealers shelves - they hope to have that resolved today.


JFS - not sure what the loops are, but I can tell you the hood did not migrate towards the windshield at all. Also, occupants of car were fine day after accident so I do believe we are all OK.

 

[sftouchton]

Just another quick update:

Car is mechanically and cosmetically complete. The heat shield on the manifold could not be replaced, so it was reworked. Chrysler does not have a replacement part available at this time.

Bad news is that the Jeep dealership has been unable to calibrate the radar system, and it keeps throwing an error.