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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Have had my Rene since new 2016. I avoided driving it in snow because it would slide when going down a steep hill or coming to a stop in the snow. I actually used my cobolt to go back and forth to work, no issues. So now I have bought different tires and they are the same I had on another vehicle. I thought this would fix the issue. well it still wants to lock up and slide even at a low speed when going down the hill on just a small amount of snow. Just had it inspected, everything is good. Brakes and rotors were replaced about 6 months ago because they would not retract the whole way when released and had worn the rotors ( 2nd time). They also had a huge build up of rust. I am debating to trade it in but no I do like the vehicle in all other circumstances. Any suggestions, we live at the bottom of the hill.
 

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It all comes down to the tires. The OEM tires in the snow that I have are very poor and it slides. I just reafirned this this past week. I swapped my blizzack snows on and it's unstoppable. If you want good handling in snow get snow tires. It has nothing to do with nthe car. All season tires are a compromise in both summer and winter.
 

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I believe you are in the best position to determine that the vehicle is making the difference. I would say it is likely some braking issue (still or again). My experience with my 2015 TH puts the brake design/quality as a weak point. I haven't experienced anything similar to what you describe, but I don't drive the same snowy hill every day.

In slippery conditions any unbalance between the forces on the 4 wheels (either accelerating or braking) will cause a slide. Do you feel the anti-lock pulsing?
 

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Watch these for insight into good tyres choices:




Latest AllSeason 3PMSF tyres (after 2018) have come a long way and are a good compromise (on a 4/AWD car) if you are unable or unwilling to get winter tyres fitted every winter season.

Just be aware that there are "4Season" tyres on the market that are not winter/snow rated and are therefore only 3Season. (Especially in the US market.)
 
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It’s not fair to really compare it with other vehicles as well. Too many factors come into play like weight bias, contact footprint, etc, etc. This is our first winter with our 21, and like said above the stock wild peaks are garbage on snow and ice (in my opinion).

All that said now is a great time to sell used vehicles and get top dollar!
 

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Totally agree with the comments above on the stock tires. Got rid of them before the Renegade reached 60 thousand kilometres. Is not that I had money to burn or wanted something better looking, it was because they were that bad.
My Renegade is a 2016 North with 4x4 fitted with a set of Michelin CrossClimate all weather tires (other than that is stock). We have been in minus 30 Celsius since before Xmas and there is snow everywhere. It surprises me how well the vehicle behaves even when pushing it on a corner on purpose (yes, traction controls lights and noises but) it always find the center of the lane.
Having said that, I do not drive many steep inclines (where need to brake or stop on them).
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
I believe you are in the best position to determine that the vehicle is making the difference. I would say it is likely some braking issue (still or again). My experience with my 2015 TH puts the brake design/quality as a weak point. I haven't experienced anything similar to what you describe, but I don't drive the same snowy hill every day.

In slippery conditions any unbalance between the forces on the 4 wheels (either accelerating or braking) will cause a slide. Do you feel the anti-lock pulsing?
Yes , you can feel the pulsing. I have gotten the appropriate tires that they recommended to help with the issue. I just wish it stopped better. I take it to a Jeep dealership for my service, I had hoped they corrected the issue but maybe something that cant be corrected. Thank you for your input.
 

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Which tyres did they sell you? Even with winter tyres the car will not come to an immediate stop on snow and driving at the appropriate speed etc is the main method to stay safe.

Check out the videos for snow testing/driving on the Tyre Reviews Youtube channel and you will see the braking distances on snow.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Which tyres did they sell you? Even with winter tyres the car will not come to an immediate stop on snow and driving at the appropriate speed etc is the main method to stay safe.

Check out the videos for snow testing/driving on the Tyre Reviews Youtube channel and you will see the braking distances on snow.
Which tyres did they sell you? Even with winter tyres the car will not come to an immediate stop on snow and driving at the appropriate speed etc is the main method to stay safe.

Check out the videos for snow testing/driving on the Tyre Reviews Youtube channel and you will see the braking distances on snow.
Cross /Climate Michigan
 

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Cross /Climate Michigan
The Michelin :) CrossClimate tires aren't pure winter tires. They do have the Three Peak Mountain Snowflake (3PMSF) designation...

Triangle Automotive design Grey Font Rim


...which theoretically means they'll be better in snow than "normal" mud & snow all-season tires; but they're still all-season tires.

If you live at the bottom of a hill that you can't avoid in the snow, you really should have gotten pure winter tires for the winter.

It's not the fault of the Renegade. Don't know if yours is 4x4, but even 4x4 won't help much on snow or ice when going downhill. If you're feeling the ABS pulsing, then you're losing traction between the tires and the snow/ice surface.

What will give you the best brake traction are good winter tires...
 

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Cross Climates are snow rated. but they are also a symmetrical tread patterned road tyre. (They are compared with the others available in the above vid I posted.)

Data from the vid is here:

 

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Saw no test results or reviews of those tires on snow, but it's hard to believe they'd be that bad. Keep in mind that all vehicles have 4 wheel brakes, so a 4 wheel drive (or all wheel drive) has little advantage there. It's all about the road conditions, tires and ABS system. If you're good at modulating the brakes you may be able to beat the ABS performance sometimes, but usually you're better off holding the pedal down and letting the ABS do its job. If it's a manual you can push in the clutch to make sure all power is removed so all traction is available for braking.

There was no description of the road conditions in the OP - at some point ice just becomes hopeless for anything. I remember one time at work where parked cars just started sliding in the lot at work, and it was not much of a slope either!
 

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Cross Climates are snow rated.
You mean the M+S marking, and/or the 3PMSF?

Either way, they're still technically all-season tires, not pure winter tires.

As far as the M+S (mud and snow) marking, my understanding is that there's no real standard for that. It's just a judgement call by the manufacturer, based mostly on the tread pattern.

Standards for the 3PMSF marking (which the CrossClimates also have) seem to be more specific -- but still not pure winter tires.

That having been said, my Falken WildPeak A/T Trail tires here on the Colorado Front Range are 3PMSF, not pure winter. It's a balance you have to determine, balancing extreme snow performance against the cost of having two sets of tires and perhaps wheels.

The only time I've ever had pure winter plus summer tires was when we were living in Southern Germany 1998-2002. As you know, all-season tires are comparatively rare in Europe; so I had a good set of pure winter tires on steel rims for my VW B4 Passat, and changed them over each season. Plus pure ultra-high-performance summer tires on the alloy rims. I have to say, the grip of the winter tires on snow was pretty phenomenal...
 

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Here in Europe only 3PMSF is a legally recognized homologation for tyres to be used at low temperatures and on snow.

Yes you are right, M&S is not a recognized standard. No manufacturer testing is required to put it on the side of a tyre. And yes it is mostly used to describe a tread pattern style. No performance in low temperatures or on snow is suggested by the M&S mark.

New 3PMSF rated AllSeason tyres are developed and tested for snow use.

Please do read the article that I posted for the AllSeason test on TyreReviews.com:

The Michelin performed well in snow even against the Winter tyre used for benchmarking.
Tyre reviews place it 1st in testing all-round.


As a side note: From this year you must fit 3PMSF rated tyres to drive in the mountains in France during winter. It is the law. 3PMSF AllSeason tyres have worked great for me. I live on the Cote D'Azur and can get up into the snowy Alps with no issues.

I go for tyres rated 3PMSF, M&S and XL for all year road use, mild off-road and use on ploughed snow roads. And to get in and out of uncleared ski station car parking.

If you check the vid I also posted the comparison of a 2WD Mini on winter tyres vs an AWD Mini on AllSeason tyres gave the verdict of equivalent performance on snow.
 

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Here in Europe only 3PMSF is a legally recognized homologation for tyres to be used at low temperatures and on snow.
Interesting. It's been about 13 years since we've last lived in Europe, so I'm not up on the European standards or requirements. I do know that 3PMSF is a relatively-new designation.

So is 3PMSF now used in Europe to designate a tire that meets winter-tire standards? I don't remember exactly what winter tires I had in Germany in 1998-2002 (they were Conti's), or how they were marked.

According to tirerack.com...

What is the Three-Peak Mountain Snowflake Symbol? | Tire Rack

...the 3PMSF "indicates the tire meets required performance criteria in snow testing to be considered severe snow service-rated," and was "[o]riginally used as a designation for winter tires."

Sounds good, but the article then goes on to say that "3PMSF-branded all-season and all-terrain tires cannot match the traction of dedicated winter / snow tires in all winter weather conditions and should not be considered a replacement for where and when a dedicated winter tire is needed."

So I guess the 3PMSF designation can be used on pure-winter tires, as well as all-season tires...? Note that 3PMSF "[t]esting measures a tire's acceleration traction on medium-packed snow only;" not braking or turning, or ice traction.

Interestingly, here in Colorado, in the shadow of the Rocky Mountains (or even smack-dab in the middle of them), the state's Traction Law only says:

During winter storms, or when conditions require, CDOT will implement the Passenger Vehicle Traction Law. CDOT can implement the Passenger Vehicle Traction and Chain Laws on any state highway. During a Traction Law, all motorists are required to have EITHER:
  1. 4WD or AWD vehicle and 3/16” tread depth
  2. Tires with a mud and snow designation (M+S icon) and 3/16” tread depth
  3. Winter tires (mountain-snowflake icon) and 3/16” tread depth
  4. Tires with an all-weather rating by the manufacturer and 3/16” tread depth
  5. Chains or an approved alternative traction device
Note that merely M+S all-season tires, with minimal tread, are sufficient. And that a 4WD or AWD vehicle doesn't even need those. Kind of scary.

Also note that otherwise there's no prohibition against using even pure-summer tires in the winter -- even though their hard tread compound would definitely reduce traction even on cold and dry roads.

I do know that commercial vehicles have to carry chains in the mountains. And in more-severe conditions, the Passenger Vehicle Chain Law can be implemented, requiring chains (or other approved traction devices -- I assume that includes cable chains) on all vehicles.

Beyond that, they just close the highway. this is an on-ramp to I-25 at the northern fringes of Colorado Springs, just before going up Monument Hill over the Palmer Divide toward Denver. Can you say "blowing and drifting snow?:

Plant Sky Cloud Tree Infrastructure
 

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It is a Jeep, but don't be afraid to put on a set of snow chains or cables if necessary.
 

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New 3PMSF rated AllSeason tyres are developed and tested for snow use.

Please do read the article that I posted for the AllSeason test on TyreReviews.com:

The Michelin performed well in snow even against the Winter tyre used for benchmarking.
Tyre reviews place it 1st in testing all-round.
Here's the problem with pretty much all tire reviews: They test new tires.

For example you will see me having posted reviews of the prielli scoprion ATP tires and saying they are very quiet. Which they are when new, and for about half of their lifespan.

A lot of things like quietness, rain grip, snow grip, etc. are due to tire compound, and most of them require a softer compound. But everyone wants tires that last forever, so ever since the manufacturing technology hit to do compounds in layers, that's mostly what you get, and do not get uniform performance throughout the tread life.

Winter tires are generally less susceptible to this than all season tires.

But as others have said to the OP, nothing will save you from momentum on a sufficiently slippery surface. Everything else being equal (i.e. weight, contact patch, tire compound), a taller vehicle with shorter wheelbase stopping downhill will transfer more weight to the front wheels and be at a disadvantage to a lower, longer sedan, and AWD won't matter at all in that situation other than possibly having hill descent control and using that to go down hill slowly and minimize momentum.

Also if you have a slope that is not frictionless, there will be a threshold of mass vs a given amount of traction where even if you placed something on the slope with no momentum, it would slide down if it has too much mass. The OP mentioned a chevy cobolt. DEpending on the trim of the renegade and cobolt, you could be looking at a near 1000lb difference in weight. That's going to matter a lot, and you absolutely cannot expect to drive the renegade the same way you drive the cobolt in this situation. The renny will need to be going slower and stopping more gently.
 

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Have had my Rene since new 2016. I avoided driving it in snow because it would slide when going down a steep hill or coming to a stop in the snow. I actually used my cobolt to go back and forth to work, no issues. So now I have bought different tires and they are the same I had on another vehicle. I thought this would fix the issue. well it still wants to lock up and slide even at a low speed when going down the hill on just a small amount of snow. Just had it inspected, everything is good. Brakes and rotors were replaced about 6 months ago because they would not retract the whole way when released and had worn the rotors ( 2nd time). They also had a huge build up of rust. I am debating to trade it in but no I do like the vehicle in all other circumstances. Any suggestions, we live at the bottom of the hill.
you may not be used to a lighter vehicle, and "anti locking" brakes do not work in the snow.you will just have to learn your driving limits on snow and adjust. my renegade with"wildpeak " tires have gone through 12" of snow with no problems. braking in the snow takes a while to learn. have fun with your renegade
 

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"anti locking" brakes do not work in the snow
You need to expand on that. ABS absolutely does work on snow, or any other conditions where your vehicle is sliding and the brakes would otherwise lock up.

Of course, it doesn't help with plowing through deep snow when level or uphill -- or with increasing tire grip on any surface.
 

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You need to expand on that. ABS absolutely does work on snow, or any other conditions where your vehicle is sliding and the brakes would otherwise lock up.

Of course, it doesn't help with plowing through deep snow when level or uphill -- or with increasing tire grip on any surface.
They are probably referring to the fact that ABS has longer stopping distances in the snow vs. proper braking. GOOD braking can often beat ABS in performance on a lot of surfaces, it's just that most people aren't skilled enough drivers to beat ABS on dry asphalt, wet roads, and ice. The average joe is able to execute stomp and steer much easier than proper braking in these situations. But in snow and gravel and such, ABS has longer stopping distances than even locking up the brakes. So you get stuck with longer stopping distances unless you have the skill to threshold brake.
 
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