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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have a theory,

The parts on the Renegade are probably pretty modular. I wonder what it would take to start with either a 4x4 Sport, Latitude, or ideally a 75th Anniversary Edition Renegade, all which can be equipped with a manual transmission, and build up it's capabilities to that equal to or exceeding the Trailhawk.

I can't go back to a automatic transmission guys. I just can't. I've owned 5 vehicles with a stick. I'll go crazy if I get an automatic Trailhawk. I'm going to add to this thread as I do more research into this and figure out the budget.

-Joe
 

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I didn't want an automatic either. But I just didn't want the 1.4T engine either. As it stands now, you must get the 1.4T if you want a manual.

When I first saw a Trailhawk, I really liked its looks, so I compromised and bought it. And the automatic isn't really that bad as far as automatics go. One part of automatic shifting I don't like is when the computer selects a gear range I don't like; as in holding a way too high rpm while climbing the 1 mile, 9% grade hill going to work every morning. My son's car does this and it annoyed me to no end whenever I drove that car.

That is easily remedied with a quick bump over to manual mode in the Renegade so I can drop down a gear (or two). Manual mode works quite well giving a little control over the shift points, but in no way compares to a real manual transmission. For me though, my other car has a manual so I still get to shift when I drive it.
 

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As far as the appearance of a TrailHawk goes, about $2000 in parts can get you there. The skid plates can also be purchased for another $1000 or so. Struts from the Trailhawk would get you the whopping extra .3 of an inch or height. Struts/springs are about $1200 or so.

The real help would be to find a set of taller final drive gears. Our 6th gear is about useless. A final drive that would drop first gear down low enough to be a real "crawl" gear would drop sixth where fifth is now. This would be idea.

I've had my Latitude off road on some pretty rocky and hilly stuff. It does pretty good, if you can get over the fear of hitting the fuel tank without skid plates.

-Jason
 

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I was in your shoes - loved the look and capabilities of the Trailhawk, and was sorely disappointed that it didn't come out in a manual.

Eventually I sat down and really thought about it - I'm not going to be doing any rock climbing or anything else that needs the low gear/crawl ratio. Dirt road, significant snow/ice - yes. My 4x4 Latitude takes it all on just fine. So - do you plan to off-road to the point you need the TH? If not, the answer is easy. But if you do... I wouldn't bank on "building up" a Sport or Latitude - nothing you can do about the crawl ratio.
 

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Also should add .... if you haven't yet - you should take the Sport/Latitude our for a test drive. I bet you'll fall in love with the manual. My last 6 (or so) cars include VW's, Hondas, and Saturns.... like you - all MT. I absolutely love the clutch on the Rennie. Never really loved the clutch of the Hondas and Saturns. Really liked the VW clutch, and love this clutch. Maybe its due to the turbo... I don't know. But the throws and great and it shifts smooth. Take one out - I think you'll really enjoy it!
 

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I'm one of the crazies that actually wanted the 1.4 turbo (that I was already familiar with) 4x4. I would have prefered it to be a 5 speed but I think with a little tuning the 6th gear might be a little more useful. You can always spend the money to make the renegade look like a different trim model and there are lift kits available now for off road enthusiasts. Not much you can do about the drivetrain execept maybe wait for some type of tune to modify timing in the aitomatics but honestly I trust my foot on a clutch more than I trust some computer system.
 

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The TH is more than just skid plates and appearance. I too am a fan of manual transmissions, and have had 7 Mustang, 6 of which were Manual and 4 Jeeps, 2 of which were Manual. My current '07 Shelby GT500 is ofcourse 6 speed manual. That being said, I love the auto in the TH...daily driving and off-roading it is amazing. Even if you spend the money/time to convert another trim to TH trim, you will miss out on certain things, like the ActiveDriveLow system, Rock mode, and as someone mentioned, the 4.33 final drive gear.

I am in no way trash talking standards or other trim Renegades. The other 4x4 Rennys are still plenty off-road capable...but if you're thinking of "making" a TH anyways, I'd bite the bullet and get the Auto...just my $0.02...!
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 · (Edited)
...eventually I sat down and really thought about it - I'm not going to be doing any rock climbing or anything else that needs the low gear/crawl ratio. Dirt road, significant snow/ice - yes. My 4x4 Latitude takes it all on just fine...
That's more or less why I chose my Compass a couple years ago. Its more or less an "all weather" vehicle rather than an all terrain vehicle and up until this point that's mostly all I have been interested in.

But... This just looks like so much fun!
https://youtu.be/DFC3ZeKHldI?t=3m3s

There must be tons of places to do this in New England. I'm guessing New Hampshire has more than a few trails. The Renegade in this video started as a TH that was lifted with different wheels and off road tires, but is there anything on this Jeep I can't install on a Sport or Limited with aftermarket parts? If the answer is no then I guess the question is can you do this with the Renegade's M/T and slightly smaller turbo engine?
 

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In theory you could, but the smaller turbo engine makes both less HP and TQ, the latter of which is very important off road. Also, turbo engines in general are not ideal off road as the turbo needs to spool to make more power... Anything is possible, but in my honest opinion, its just not practical to "convert" a non-TH to a TH....financially or functionality... The other 4x4 Renegades are plenty capable as is...but if you're thinking about doing anything remotely close to what's in that Wayalife video...better get a TH.
 

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I know the feeling, A/T bores the crap out of me. I got the 6 speed sport and haven't looked back. I have a lifted 5sp Cherokee for offroading anyway :D. Offroading is all about the gearing and locking capability. Pretty much any engine and drivetrain combo will get you there with the right gears and decent torque. A turbo may need a heavy duty oil cooler since you're going slow, however.
 

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In theory you could, but the smaller turbo engine makes both less HP and TQ, the latter of which is very important off road. Also, turbo engines in general are not ideal off road as the turbo needs to spool to make more power... Anything is possible, but in my honest opinion, its just not practical to "convert" a non-TH to a TH....financially or functionality... The other 4x4 Renegades are plenty capable as is...but if you're thinking about doing anything remotely close to what's in that Wayalife video...better get a TH.
The 1.4 actually produces about 10 ft/lb more
 

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The 1.4 actually produces about 10 ft/lb more
Schooled

It also produces that 184 foot pounds of peak torque at only 2500 rpms as opposed to the TH's 175 foot pounds at 3900 rpms. Last I checked (which was when I had my Latitude off tarmac two weeks ago) its a lot easier to crawl at 2500 rpms than 3900...

-Jason
 

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Personally I think FCA was stupid to not make a TH version of the 1.4. Here's why:

TH "advantage" myth #1 : 20:1 final drive vs. 1.4 18:1

Debunked: The higher low down torque of the 1.4 negates the difference. I can crawl up a hill in first gear at 2000 rpms doing about 10 mph. How slow does the TH do that?

TH "advantage" myth #2 : Hill descent and 4x4 Low are "special"

Debunked: Both of these are essentially just programming that locks the 9-speed in first. To do this with the 1.4 you just put it in first and DON'T SHIFT. Hill descent also uses the braking system and the cruse control to maintain the same speed. This can also be accomplished in a manual by slightly depressing the brake when the vehicle seems to be speeding up and pressing the accelerator slightly when it begins to slow down (all while locked in first).

TH "advantage" myth #3 : It has a extra .8" "lift" on it.

Debunked: It has tires that are 1" larger in diameter. That makes up .5 of the .8" "lift". The actual difference is .3". That's thickness of a pencil. The first thing I did to mine was buy tires that are 2" larger than the stock tires. Mine now has more ground clearance than a stock TH.

The real advantage of the TH is the skid plates. I will not even attempt to argue that. It also has a slightly better approach angle due to the design of the front bumper. Both of these are bolt-on solutions that could have been offered as a package.

I think the only reason why they chose to go the way they did is that the automatic and its associated programming give the TH a "turn the knob and push the 'go pedal'" ability to do what it does where utilizing the manual off road takes a certain level of thought. With the TH only as an automatic they can turn it over to pretty much any magazine, online review or other reviewer and be guaranteed that the skill of the tester is not going to diminish the results of the review. If a manual TH were to be reviewed by someone who does not know what they are doing FCA would end up with nothing but a fried clutch and a bad review.

The preceding was just my thoughts on this. I don't mean to offend anyone who may feel their Renegade's transmission control unit is smarter and more talented off road than my right hand and left foot :)

-Jason
 

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I PMed MRM with this as well, hope he knows the answer, but just in case i'll ask all 1.4T 6-speed owners also. Remember gear ratio inside the tranny amplifies torque at lower gears. Here are the ratios for the Auto Trailhawk. You will notice it has a nice 4.71 in 1st and that 5th is its 1:1 ratio. Meaning 6th-9th is all overdriven for gas mileage purposes. During all normal driving conditions it takes off in 2nd gear, which is why you see the large jump from 4.71 to 2.84. Please, if anyone has the tranny gear ratios for the 1.4T 6-speed, will you post them here? I'm sure we would all like to compare.

Trailhawk Gear Ratios

1
4.713

2
2.842

3
1.909

4
1.382

5
1.000

6
0.808

7
0.699

8
0.580

9
0.480

R
3.800


PS: I know the 1.4T 6-speed tranny is the Fiat C635 gearbox. Can't seem to find a definitive answer on the 1st gear ratio tho. Some say 4.15 some say 3.90. ANY help would be appreciated!

PPS: The Trailhawk comes with the ZF9HP-48 transmission. Pretty stout actually, almost overkill for this 2.4 engine. It's the combined 4.71 1st gear plus the 4.33 final drive that gives it the 20:1 without having a 2 speed PTU.
 

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Here are the max torque capabilities of each tranny. Both very stout and overkill for the engines they are paired with, which is a good thing. Go Jeep!

Fiat C635 (6 speed manual) max torque : 258 ft/lbs

ZF9HP-48 (9 speed auto) max torque : 354 ft/lbs
 

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The six speed:
1 - 4.154
2 - 2.118
3 - 1.361
4 - 0.978
5 - 0.756
6 - 0.622
R - 4.00
Final drive - 4.438/4.438/3.579/3.833 (depends on market)

The Trailhawk final drive is 4.334
 

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Thx for the info bwbike, looks like it is a 4.15 for first then. Not to shabby but not quite the 4.71 of the TH. Both 6 speed and TH are 4.33 final drive. Very similar off road capabilities.

PS: MRM, I am not a manual hater/basher...I actually drive a big rig with 15 forward gears and 3 reverses...and almost alway buy manuals. It looks like Jeep just wanted to achieve the effect of a 2 speed transfer unit without one, so they used 1st in the auto for that function. I do wish that they offered the TH in 6 speed to give people the choice.
 

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So is it Possible to put the Manual transmission in a TH ? Or any Manual ?

Love my TH. Hate the Auto it has. If you want to downshift while on the freeway I think you have to put in a request with Fiat then wait about 3 weeks for a response.
 
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